Defining Proprioceptive from the McDonalds Parking Lot

[00:00:01] Speaker A: So tell proprioception. Get. Tell people like people that hear that that's a four dollar word, five dollars word. What is proprioception? [00:00:10] Speaker B: I just want to volunteer that. And when he says tell the people who don't understand that, that includes me, by the way. I don't have a clue what's proprietary. I can't even say that word. [00:00:19] Speaker C: So I guess, I guess Mike. [00:00:21] Speaker B: And you tell the listeners who don't know anything about that. Yeah, tell the people who don't understand that a little bit or. [00:00:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:32] Speaker B: And action. So. [00:00:33] Speaker C: And I'm gonna use this microphone is super loud. [00:00:36] Speaker B: It is actually. Do I have control over that? I might can turn him down. Hold on. [00:00:40] Speaker C: Yeah, he's come. He comes in heavy hand talking to my ex wife. [00:00:44] Speaker A: Turn him down. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Is that better? Have I got him turned down now? [00:00:48] Speaker C: Try it again. Say something, Mike. [00:00:50] Speaker A: I turned myself down. Okay. [00:00:53] Speaker B: It's a little better now. I can always clean that up later. But, well, and I use this term incredibly loosely. Welcome to the best golf podcast ever. And. And I can't. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Tony's a ghost. He keeps walking. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Tony, your virtual background. The cat's out of the bag. That it's not. That it's not real. We just saw you walk through the wall of your virtual background. So I didn't even bother. A virtual background. I'm sitting in a McDonald's in Greensboro. I was trying. So what were you doing? This is probably the worst podcast ever. Like not just golf or otherwise. This is going to be a terrible one. But I hope we at least get some style points for authenticity because you don't get any more real than this. I was trying desperately to get to my mom and dad's before 5 o' clock so that we could get settled in everything. But I hit two traffic jams and had to pull over for something and it was like, I'm not going to make it. So I was like, I got to find somewhere to. To pull off. And I was like, well, there's a McDonald's. And you know McDonald's nowadays, most of the time they don't. People don't go into McDonald's anymore. Right. They order on the app, they get their food and they're late. [00:01:58] Speaker A: They leave, I guess. [00:01:59] Speaker B: But that's not the case here today. It is slam packed. So I'm in the middle of a live studio audience. [00:02:04] Speaker C: Would the McDonald's parking lot in your car be a better option? [00:02:09] Speaker B: It would, but my cell phone's only got like 8% battery left and I needed WI fi with my Computer. So I'm telling you, this is. Look, it's. It's not ideal, but it's only by the grace of God we made it this far. Okay. It could have been even worse. [00:02:24] Speaker C: Do we just need to reschedule? [00:02:26] Speaker B: I mean, I don't know. I don't know when we could. Because you're. Are you playing tomorrow? [00:02:32] Speaker A: The people demand an episode. Well, we're gonna give it to them. [00:02:37] Speaker B: That's right. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:38] Speaker B: I mean, we. We're finally making some progress here and I'd hate to break momentum and skip a week. So. You know what? [00:02:43] Speaker C: And that might. My dog is making an appearance. Hey, girl. [00:02:46] Speaker A: There you go. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah, this was just going to be one of those. That's, you know. Hey, you don't. [00:02:52] Speaker A: You don't wait to see what AI calls this episode. [00:02:55] Speaker B: I titled the actual episodes AI titles the shorts, but I actually okay the title for the episode. So, yeah, we're. We're off to. We're off to a great start. This, this one's off to the same kind of start that me and that I had when I played Tony at Eagle Ridge. Double bogey, bogey, double whatever. [00:03:10] Speaker C: Hey, but then you rallied, so we're gonna rally. We'll figure it out. [00:03:13] Speaker A: We'll rally. [00:03:14] Speaker B: We'll get there. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Well, I'm a professional cheerleader. That's what I do all day. You could do it. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Oh, I forgot. And it's Friday too, so we've got Raw Mike. [00:03:22] Speaker C: You got Unfiltered Mike. [00:03:24] Speaker B: That's right, Unfiltered Mike. I'm gonna. I've done some pretty embarrassing things in my life, but recording a podcast live from the McDonald's is a new low I don't even think I've gotten. This is. This is new, even for me, so. [00:03:36] Speaker C: It'S better than a Jack in the Box. [00:03:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say it could only, you know, if you went Bojangles. Shout out to Bojangles. [00:03:42] Speaker B: So do we want to set the over under right now? How long I last in here before they throw me out? I am a paid customer. I did get a cheeseburger and fries, so, I mean, I don't think they can kick me out, but we'll see. [00:03:52] Speaker A: Are you gonna be leading the. The health segment of the podcast this week? [00:03:58] Speaker B: Yep, that's it. Cheeseburger and fries, man. I got my protein. I. I got my carbs here, my sweet tea. [00:04:05] Speaker C: Hey, listen, I talked to this guy. I played golf a few weeks ago, and in my Cart was an 85 year old guy, or 83 year old guy and he shot like a 74. He's in good shape. I said, what's your secret, man? And he was like, cheeseburgers, beer, wine, stuff like that, you know, I was like, well, there you go. This guy is like 86. Yeah, this guy's 86 years old and he won the senior pickleball championship, you know, for the senior games. And I said, well, what's your secret to longevity and health? And he goes, I have a Manhattan every day. And that was his one, his one trick. So the common denominator is alcohol in some form or fashion. [00:04:44] Speaker B: And, and I, I don't even have that today. McDonald's doesn't even serve alcohol. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Don't even have that. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I've got, I've got nothing. Anyway, we'll make it through. Tony, I, I don't, we don't really have. We've not discussed any type of an agenda. You know, Mike over here is the one who always wants an agenda before we record, but apparently on Fridays he could care less. He just like, let's go. [00:05:03] Speaker A: So that's true. [00:05:05] Speaker B: So, I don't know. I do have. I want to make a point to Tony, though. According to YouTube Analytics, I am not the only one out there who is obsessed with trying to hit the ball far. Because if you. Have you even seen what the, the video that I did with the driver has done? It's, it's like we have more watch time on that video today than I think the entire channel in like the last three days combined. I mean, it's just like, it's, it's, it's hit the. I mean, we're not exactly what I would call viral, but for us, our standards, it's. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Our temperature is up. [00:05:37] Speaker B: That's right. So, yeah, apparently I'm not the only one obsessed with trying to hit the ball far. But I. Let's see. [00:05:43] Speaker A: We. [00:05:43] Speaker B: You've got a big, you've got club championship coming up this weekend and I may or may not be in the member guest at Solid. I'm. I'm waiting to see how the weekend pans out. I can see if I can get. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Back or not, but. [00:05:55] Speaker B: So it could be a big weekend. Are you fully prepared for this club championship as well as you did for the last rain? [00:06:02] Speaker A: I saw the weather forecast. [00:06:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It could be a, could be a swamp fest. No. So, you know, I played some fun golf, as I said I did the four club won that and then I got to play with my mentors nine holes in the rain. We didn't get to finish that tournament. And then this last Monday, this current Monday, I got to play in another fundraiser tournament that was a lot of fun, Tobacco Road. And that was the day that I had on my second hole. So I made a long birdie, put on the first hole to get everything started. And then I get up to the next hole and I told the people I was playing with, I was like, at some point, because they're ooh and ahhing. I had a nice drive, you know, and they're like. I was like, at some point, one of y' all is going to ask me what I do for a living. And then so obligatory, one of them goes, well, what do you do for a living? So I told him. And then I said, so now I've built myself up. I'm either going to hit a great shot or it's going to go all downhill from here. So I had 170 yards on number four at Tobacco Road. Pins in the back, pick an eight iron, hit it. I made a dead straight, perfect ball slightly right of the flag. It hits and just starts trickling. And one of the guys goes, that's going to go in. And sure enough, it disappears for an albatross. My first ever albatross. And then I said, so, yeah, lessons of $200 an hour. Here's my contact information. And then I played. I mean, I played phenomenal all day. I had another 170 yard shot on a par 5 that was almost an albatross. That finished like this far from going in. I can send you videos and you could in the podcast, you can throw them in here, you know, just for evidence and then. Yeah, but had a great time. One of the guys we're gonna have on the podcast as a guest eventually, David Khan, It's. It was a fundraiser for a disease that his daughter's battle called batten B A T T E N. And they've done it for the past four. Four years. Four or five years. I think this is the fifth year and raising money and awareness for it, obviously, but he's a golf course architect, so up to get him on. And another guy I know really well, good buddy, great golfer Preston Campbell, is one who sponsored a team for me to play on and apparently a bunch of his friends. So Mo, Andy and Carl, I told you all I'd shout you out. Y' all were so much fun to play with. Hopefully you're listening to the podcast and I'll send a picture, too. You can see the picture of us. [00:08:11] Speaker B: That we took I hope they made it this far into the episode to hear their shout out because they probably jumped off when they heard me in the McDonald's. [00:08:18] Speaker C: Well, so what we'll do is you should just title this one. This one's for Mo, Andy and Carl. [00:08:25] Speaker B: That makes it easy. [00:08:26] Speaker C: But yeah, no, it was fun. And I chipped in for birdie and made a ton of foot of putts for birdies and eagles and stuff. So it was, it was good. The swing was great. Feeling good, having fun. Didn't get a chance to play the rest of the week or really practice. I was going to try to play today, but all the tee times were booked at Riverwood, where I was going to go practice anyway. So I just overseeded my lawn for rye grass for the winter instead. [00:08:49] Speaker A: Nice. [00:08:50] Speaker B: I don't know if you gave that round full justice there. You texted us afterwards that you thought on your own ball you would have been like 8 under or something like that. [00:08:57] Speaker C: I mean, you were very well. Yeah, I very well may have been seven or eight under on my own ball because, I mean, another. I mean, there was another one, right? So there's another par 5, that really short one that you can cut the corner with the trees, and it's got like the V in front of the green of the. The mounds. Hit that shot to four feet for eagle, you know, so it was just like, there was a lot of. I mean, just those shots alone would have been 3, 4, 5, 7 under. And then other birdies, you know, on my own, you know, hold out for birdie on one of the par threes. It was just crazy. It was so much fun. So I don't, like I said, I don't really know what else to I could have done this week. I kind of want to just ride that momentum and just enjoy. But, you know, tomorrow I'll go out and I'll play and I'll have fun. And my new motto for life and for everything is do your best and forget the rest. So we just go with it and see what happens. [00:09:48] Speaker A: That was. [00:09:49] Speaker B: It was. It was a weird morning, I guess. Like, we get a text and it's like, I just got my first ever albatross. It's like, dude, that's awesome. And then like 10 minutes later and I just chipped in for birdie. And then 20 minutes later and I almost made another albatross. I have a 2 inch tap in for eagle and I'm just like, is this guy for real? Like, what is he doing today? Like, that was fun. That's that was crazy. So those are probably going shoot at. [00:10:12] Speaker C: 85 tomorrow or something like that. I wasted it all. [00:10:16] Speaker B: And I wasted it all for bed. Well, I haven't really gotten to play. I played my league round. But honestly, like, all of my Soli's time has been devoted to shooting videos for the YouTube channel. It seems like this week, which has been surprisingly productive for my golf game. Yeah. Because, like, okay, I shoot the video. Tony came in the other day and shot the. The putting drill that we have worked on a little bit. And we had done. He had shown it to me. I don't think we had recorded it, but he got some video of it, but it wasn't enough video to be able to make a video, so I had to, like, go back and film some of my own stuff in the. In the studio there or the. [00:10:52] Speaker A: The. [00:10:52] Speaker B: The golf room in the. At the clubhouse to kind of overlay with and stuff like that. And I'm watching the, you know, playback as I'm editing and stuff. And I keep saying over and over how you want your putting stroke to be about the same length on both sides, except every single time I show you how to do that. Mine is way farther on the follow through than the backstroke. So I'm like, huh, apparently I need to work on that. And then I did a video. It's not been released yet, but it should be by the time this comes out on weight shift. And again, as I'm watching that, I'm like, I'm not doing it right. Like, I'm demonstrating it right, but when I'm not demonstrating, I do it wrong. So it's been fun. And I come across. So this is, you know, certain. Certain trends we keep running into, always shouting out sullies. But also Justin Stahl, I brought him up last week on the show, the guy from the summer. He apparently has checked out a couple of episodes of the podcast. So what's up, man? But he. He and I went in this morning, and we're gonna practice a little bit together. And he showed me a ladder drill that's on the simulator where you start at, like, you know, 75 yards and go to 85, 95. Tony's talked about that a little bit before, too. And, man, it's a really good drill to force you to dial in your, you know, to just develop some feel with your irons because you. You end up having to get stuck in between yardages because you're only going up, like, nine yards each step, and usually you're going up about 12 to 15 yards. Per club when you're going through your bag. So it was forcing me to kind of have to figure out how to hit. You know, do I go hard pitching wedge? Do I go, you know, a little light on the nine iron? And an interesting thing that I observed from doing this, the way the drill works, you have to hit it in its. The little circle two times in a row to move on to the next one. And if you miss, you have to go all the way back to the beginning. So rather than just like trying to jump on a shot and hit a gap wedge as far as I could for that 1:26 shot, I'm like, I think I'm going to go to the pitching wedge and hit like a little three quarter shot and try to have a little bit more control. And it just occurred to me after going through this, like, maybe that's the way I should be playing real golf instead of trying to hit it as far as I can, you know, with each club. But anyway, got a video that. That should be coming. [00:13:02] Speaker A: What's the fun in that? What's the fun in that? Garrett, was it the most boring time you had on the simulator? [00:13:09] Speaker B: That one was. That one was fun because I was competing and it was. I was trying to, you know, see how quickly I could get through the drill. Plus, I was about out of time. So I was really trying to knock it out before I left. But I did something. I don't know if I'm proud of it or not, but I. I did something today I have maybe never done, but I actually laid up on a shot that I. I could have. Could have hit. I was like 2:43 out from the rough, and it was only like 225, 230 to the front edge of the green. But there's water all down the left side. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:44] Speaker B: And I'm like, I mean, there's plenty of bailout room, right. Just aim right and, you know, rip a three wood. That's what you do. But I thought, yeah, but then even if I hit it over there, I may not get it up and down, you know, there's still plenty of things I could do. So I laid up. I'm pretty sure I shanked the nine iron. I was so, like, thrown off my game that I. You weren't committed? [00:14:04] Speaker A: You weren't committed to the shot? [00:14:07] Speaker B: I wasn't. [00:14:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:09] Speaker B: I wasn't committed to the shot because I thought it was a stupid idea, but I think I did. I didn't hit a great shot. I think I laid up a couple of Times today, one of the times I laid up, I ended up making Bernie, I think I made par the other time. [00:14:19] Speaker C: That's the whole thing. Is that your worst score was par? [00:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and was it you, Tony, that I was talking to about that the other day? That one of the things that you. That I forget sometimes? No, I knew who it was. I was talking to a. A guy, a good friend of mine, used to caddy for me when I was in college, and we were talking about, you know, my tendencies to do stupid stuff on the golf course. And he was remembering a shot that I hit in a tournament one time where it was one of these, like, you know, have to thread the needle through a gap. And as we recalled the story, it was 20 years ago. He was like, you pulled it off. You hit it on the green or over the green. And I said, yeah, but I remember what happened. I actually hit it over the green and then didn't get it up and down. I still made bogey. That's the thing that you kind of forget sometimes is sometimes you pull the shot off, but you still, you knock it on and then you three putt. Well, then what. What did you even gain by taking the risk to start with? [00:15:09] Speaker A: Right? [00:15:09] Speaker C: That's kind of like if you three putt par, then you gain an easy par. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Well, it's still a par. It counts the same on the card as if you hit a wedge to 15ft and two putted. So I mean, I mean, if you. [00:15:20] Speaker C: Can, if you can go for it, if the risk reward is there, right, and the risk is minimal, then you go for it. You get it as close to the hole as you can. I think what we're trying to identify is your tendency is just. You don't ever see a shot as too risky to not go for it. So that's where we're having problems. But yeah, yeah. And again, the, you know, the thing about all this strategy stuff, too, that we're talking about is, again, it's not a one off. We're talking about the average over the career of playing a hole or over a whole season. What is the best strategic decision you can make? Not for a one off, not for that one shot you hit that one time. But at worst, what's the, what's the path to par? Right, is my worst score or what's the easiest path to a bogey? At worst, not I could make an eagle, but I could make a triple or a double, right? We want that average score to be slightly under par. [00:16:12] Speaker B: So good, good point. And Tease me up for a question there. So if I play in the club champion or the, if I play in the member guest tomorrow, this is something I was thinking about because I did, I mean, and I did make the comment to Justin today. I hit a four iron on 17 or 18 and I hit a lousy shot, I mean absolutely lousy shot. But it ended up in the left rough and I had nine iron into the green. Right. If I take that same swing and hit that bad of a shot with a driver, I'm probably re teeing. There were some positives that I start to notice. Okay. When you hit a more conservative shot, you can get by with a less lesser quality of a shot, I guess. But the point that you're making is, you know, they're incremental gains. If you can save a quarter of a shot here, a quarter of a shot there, but at the end of an 18 hole round, you don't get quarter shots. Right. That's, that's over the course of a season that you may start to see that. So If I've got 18 holes of best ball to play, you know, you know, it's, that's all you've got. It's not a, a season long thing. It's not a four round tournament, it's just one round. Is there justification in playing more aggressive when you have a smaller sample size? Because that's my thing. Like in the Sully's the league play it's only nine holes. So if I go out there and shoot 34 every single time, I'm probably going to end up with 10 second place finishes. Because in over a small, I mean I might sneak a win in there once in a while, but usually if I play to make par, I'm, I'm going to lose to somebody every week. So over a small sample size, does it justify playing more aggressive? [00:17:45] Speaker C: Well, I mean, yeah, I mean there's certainly situations where if you're playing best ball with a partner and your partner is safely in the fairway, they're striking it well, you know, they're going to have a really easy par, then sure, be a little more aggressive. You know, you can work that out amongst yourselves because you're going for, you know, two pars doesn't net you anything in a best ball. Right. It's the birdie that nets you something good. But yeah, I mean there's, there's one off scenarios. Right. But we're talking about like for me, number 17 at Eagle Ridge, I just know the safest path, path to birdie at worst case par is layup, wedge on. That's just what it is, right? I've gone for it several times and yes, I've pulled it off quite a few times, you know, when you're just playing for giggles, but I've, I've played plenty of times where I've gone for it. But you know, even then you're hitting it from such a long distance, the accuracy is not going to be great. And that green is a really tough two putt green if you're 30 plus feet away from the flag because of how slopey and the ridge and everything. So even then, you know, your, your best chance at birdie might still be a wedge on because the proximity will be 15ft or less probably if I have, you know, 90 to 100 yards in versus trying to two putt from 60ft over a ridge. And it might go off the green anyways. Right? So, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people putt off the green. If they're too far past up, they're on the wrong side of that green. If they're on the back edge trying to put that ball down to a front left flag or a back right flag or a, sorry, a front right flag, you just hit it and pray that it's going to stop. So I don't know, there's certain holes where again, the risk just doesn't seem to weigh outweigh the more aggressive play. There are other holes where it's go for it no matter what, you know. [00:19:28] Speaker B: So, yeah, so the video that I shot for on YouTube the other day for weight shift, I want to get Mike's input, I guess a little bit on, on, on that because I kind of honestly, like, we probably need to collaborate a little bit more on those videos because I'm just saying what I do and what I think is a good idea. I may be giving terrible advice. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:48] Speaker B: But there were, in fact, I'm. I'm most likely giving terrible advice. So everyone should know if you do check us out on YouTube. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Not all of his videos have been checked and okayed by Tony. [00:19:59] Speaker C: The stamp of approval. [00:20:01] Speaker A: These don't necessarily reflect the views of Best that's it Golf podcasts ever. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Yeah. The views and opinions expressed in some videos have not been verified by Tony and Mike. And you should take them with a grain of salt. But in the, the video that I did on weight shift though, I was. And I just kind of noticed this myself that day. So I was like, hey, why not shoot a video about it. But when you jump, you're gonna jump more often because I have. Actually, I was gonna bring this up to you too. Did you make a comment to me when I was working out with you about me being bow legged? Did you observe that? Do you remember that? [00:20:36] Speaker A: I mean, I probably said some things, you know. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Well, because you, I think it was. [00:20:42] Speaker A: I haven't looked at your legs in a while. [00:20:45] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you made. I know somebody's pointed out to me before and I think you may have noticed it too because when you look at the bottom of my feet, you can tell that they don't wear the way they should wear. Like the soles of my shoes don't wear evenly. I do, I walk on my, my outside a lot. And if you look at my golf swing, that shows up in my tendencies. I flare my knees out and as I'm. I just have a hard time keeping my weight centered. So I've started putting a lot more emphasis on keeping my right toe turned in, especially left toe or my left knee also, but especially my right toe and my right knee. Trying to, making sure that I'm. I'm trying to make sure that I'm starting off with them a little closer together. But then as I was thinking about this weight shift video, I started just standing on one leg and jumping off of that one leg. And I started to notice that to keep myself balanced, I kind of shift my weight towards the inside of my feet where you need to have it in your golf swing. And then when I do that, if I'm jumping, I'm kind of pushing off more of my big toe than the outside of my foot. So I guess I'm just asking from a, from a fitness standpoint or from just a. What's the stuff that the kinesiology. Is that right, Tony? Am I saying that word right? [00:21:57] Speaker A: Biomechanics. Kinesiology. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Biomechanics. Yeah. I mean, am I getting my head around that the right way that when you are making an athletic move, it should be always kind of coming from the inside of your leg as opposed to the outside. Because if I'm got my weight all the way out on my toes, I'm not going to have very good balance anyway? [00:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah. You know when you're saying you're kind of preloading, you're kind of preloading your backside a little bit by turning in. You said you're kind of turn pigeon toeing your right foot and your knee a little bit. [00:22:27] Speaker B: If I could stand up and demonstrate it, I mean, I guess I can hold on. Yeah, hold on. [00:22:32] Speaker A: And that was big. That was because you felt like you. [00:22:35] Speaker B: Instead of having my knee like this, I'm trying to get it more turned in, like. Yes. Because when I set up, it's more like I'm riding a horse. I'm trying to get those knees a little closer together and get the weight a little bit more centered early in the swing in my setup. [00:22:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It makes sense. You feel like it's not limiting you. And you're in the rotation of your hips. You're in your right hip. [00:22:57] Speaker B: It may. Tony would be able to answer this maybe better than I could. Could. But I think it might restrict the rotation of my hips. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing because I think I turn my hips probably a little bit more than I need to. Anyway. I think I'm getting too much. You know, I'm swinging as hard as I can. I'm coiling everything up as much as I can. [00:23:14] Speaker A: I mean, I. I like that you're kind of playing with it. And it's, you know, when people ask me about stuff like that, I say, just try it out and see how it. See how it goes. You know, small, small little compensations can lead to big things over time. But, you know, just try it out. See how it. You're just. You're constantly tinkering. So I don't see anything wrong with it. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Well, and whether it was you or. Or someone else, I. It is factually true that I'm bow legged or whatever you want to call it, but I tend to my knees, like to point out, and I like to walk on the outsides of my feet. So, you know, it kind of goes back to the point Tony's made before, that each golfer is different, everybody's different. So whether I may term. You know, I may get to a point where I have to turn my knees and toes in more than the average golfer to compensate for that. Maybe not. But it's something that if I have to make that adjustment, then that's right for me. That wouldn't be right for someone else. I guess we've talked about that a lot. And that was just the example that I thought I was like, hey, I actually have a real life example of something that I have to alter. Something in my setup to accommodate this just unique way that my legs, whether it's. Whether I'm naturally built that way or that's just my natural tendency, I don't know. But I like to flare my knees out when they don't need to be. So I have to put extra emphasis on keeping them closer together. [00:24:32] Speaker A: I mean, it could be an ankle mobility thing. Right. That's what I'm, you know, if you're flaring your knees out, so who knows? But I mean, I like, you know, getting that inside pressure on the foot, you know, and that's. I mean, it makes sense to me. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Tony, what you got on that? You've seen my swing a heck of a lot more than Mike has and been able to observe my hip sway and all that kind of stuff. What are your thoughts? [00:24:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd much rather you work to develop balance and symmetry in your lower body muscles and work to strengthen the interior muscles of your legs and your calves and your ankles. And because pigeon toeing can lead to its own series of issues as well. So I think holistically looking at it, I would rather fix. Do you holistically versus band aiding it with pigeon toeing your feet? [00:25:18] Speaker B: Well, the interesting thing is when I feel like I'm pigeon toeing it on video, I'm still flared out. That's the weird thing about it. [00:25:27] Speaker A: Well, that's a great thing. I'm glad that you're using video because what you think you're doing, what you're actually doing, or could be two different things. [00:25:34] Speaker C: Well, because you feel you have to do to activate those muscles. Because to me, pigeon toeing, right. If this is flared about, you know, you're looking at my feet face on. I'd much rather see golfers like this than ever like this. Because that's just locking your knees out and all kinds of crazy things. And, you know, so that's. That's why I've said if. If you actually are pigeon toeing, I would be against that. But if it's just what you need to feel so that the torque in your muscles and everything can activate to prevent you from bowing your knees out, then okay. [00:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that in my mind, for years, I've set up with, I guess my toes this way, right square with the right foot, with the left toe flared out a little bit. When I look at myself on video, when I feel like it's like this, it's really like this. And when I feel like it's like this, it's usually closer to what I'm actually supposed to be at. But another thing, I mean, and I hear what you're saying about strengthening the leg muscles, that sounds like it would require gym time. So I'm not sure if I'm on board. [00:26:38] Speaker C: No, it's it's not really that much. I mean, you can do a lot of just simple body weight stuff at home, you know, with bands and stuff like that. That would help you. One leg balancing, where you're putting more pressure on the inside of the foot to balance and activate the muscles and just wake them up a little bit. [00:26:52] Speaker B: Well, and. But the other thing that I was noticing as I tinkered with it this week is that the foot and the knee can do different things. You can have your foot squared and your knees feel flared out or your foot's flared out, but your knees still kind of pinched in. I don't know what the correct biomechanical term for that is, but when I'm. It was. I actually went back and looked. It's actually a part of Hogan's book that we've. We've talked about a couple of times. He talks about having the knees pointed in towards each other a little bit at your setup. And his rationale is your knees need to work closely together throughout the swing, so start them off closer together. And he even specifically said you're, you know, a little bit more so with your right knee than even your left, but a little bit with both. Is it necessarily. Are we talking about the feet or are we talking about the knees? Whatever I'm trying to get at, is it my feet or my knees that I need to be focusing on? [00:27:37] Speaker A: Well, so the ankle is a mobile joint. The knee is a stable joint. The hip is a mobile joint. That's just the every. The. The kinetic chain. So a lot of people don't have a lot of ankle mobility. Okay. And so when you're trying to rotate and be mobile through your feet, there isn't any. I've got. I tore ligaments in my right ankle when I was 18. Soft cast for two months. Well, I don't have mobility in that ankle. And so what happens is the body's trying to find mobility in the knee. Well, the knee is a stable joint. Well, that's not going anywhere. That may cause some pain in my knee, but then it's going to try to find mobility in my hip. And so that. And maybe there's no mo. I don't have as much mobility in that hip, so then that causes that sway. So, you know, those little compensations, like Tony saying, those compensations that you're making, you know, we. I haven't. He. And I haven't done an assessment on you in years. And so I would probably look at your ankle mobility and see, you know, if there's some limitation going on in there. That's what I work. [00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So we've. So we've talked a lot about the. Obviously the encore strategy stuff. We've talked about how we've addressed swing mechanics on the podcast before. We've addressed, in its own episode, almost an entire episode, on how big of a difference the club itself can make and making sure you're fit to the right thing. So I say all that to tee up this question. I guess if I do have lack of ankle mobility or I do have a lack of shoulder mobility, or if I do have a lack of, you know, elbow mobility, if that's the right. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Word, then I don't know that there shouldn't be any. [00:29:29] Speaker B: But what about. What about your elbow? What. What about your, like, external rotation? Some people can do that, some people can't. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Mobile. [00:29:35] Speaker C: That's the shoulder. [00:29:37] Speaker B: That's the shoulder, yeah. [00:29:39] Speaker C: Okay. So your. Your. Your lower body mirrors the upper body. Think of this as your hip joint. Think of this as your knee joint, and think of this as your foot. Right. So ideally, the knee doesn't rotate. So where you're actually getting your rotation from, as Mike's saying, is from the hip or the ankle, because that's the two points at which the knee is connected to. So that's what he's saying. We don't want mobile knees or mobile elbows. Absolutely not. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:05] Speaker C: So if you got that, you got any big problems. [00:30:07] Speaker B: So if I have any limitations in my hips, ankles, wrists, shoulders, I'm unaware of them because I haven't had an assessment. [00:30:15] Speaker C: I haven't. [00:30:15] Speaker B: You know, we've not. I mean, it's been a long time. And we, like you said, we. We did one way back when. So from the golfers that you've worked with, how many, what percentage, or whatever, how you want to say it, but how many people are struggling with a certain area of their swing without realizing that it's a physical limitation or. Or just something that they need to work on in the gym to strengthen a certain muscle group or to stretch out a certain muscle group or to improve mobility in a certain muscle group as opposed to they just can't swing the golf club correctly? Their. Their bodies are set up. Their bodies are fine, but they can't swing the club, or can they not swing the club because they've got a limitation in the body that they haven't identified? [00:30:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Most golfers, some golfers, all golfers. Like, how many? What? [00:30:58] Speaker C: I don't know if there is a perfect body out there unless you're a kid. Yeah. So I mean, unless you're a kid with no injuries and just good proportionality to you long arms for golf. But like I was trying to say, I think I've mentioned several times, I've got a student right now who's early 30s, works a desk job, super tight. And so again, the ability to disassociate lower and upper body, we've talked about that a lot. He has no awareness, no ability to do that. And so, you know, when we try to get him to do things in his golf swing, as I, and I straight up told him, I was like, look, this is kind of moot until you work on your body because you won't be able to do the things that I'm asking you to do if you're too tight or if you don't have any mobility in certain areas and you can't disassociate. So I mean, then, then it comes to, to my point or to me where either the student's not going to do the work to get more mobile. Well, then I've got to build a swing around what they can do and just explain to them that you are going to put a ceiling, a cap on yourself for your golfing potential. Probably. Right. I'm working with a junior right now and his dad wants to take lessons too. The dad's got bulging discs in his lower back and several other injuries. And I, I just had a straight up conversation with him. I was like, look, if you are willing to play more forward tees, I can get you into a swing that won't hurt you. It's going to be a lot more upper body, but you could poke a driver out there, 2, 22, 30. And then just get around the course with a good short game. And he was like, as long as I can play with my son, I'm happy with that. Right. So there's, again, but that's, that's, that's a very tough, honest conversation you have to have with the golfer. And as we've seen, golfers have egos. They don't want to play the appropriate tee boxes for the distance that they can hit. They don't want to believe that they're not 22 anymore, pain free 22 anymore. So. And they just want to drink beer and go out and magically shoot a 68 every once in a while, you know, so, and that's a broad blanket statement. I'm not trying to say everybody, but it's, it's some for sure. [00:32:55] Speaker B: So Mike, how, how long does it take to work these things out. I know it's not, I'm not asking for like a definitive timeline, but if someone comes to you and you identify certain areas that they need to improve mobility or they need to strengthen certain areas or whatever, whatever deficiencies you find in that assessment. Is this a, you know, something that you're going to start to see progress on in four to six, eight weeks in the gym, or is this something that for sure, a couple of years? [00:33:19] Speaker A: No, no, it's usually four weeks. Yeah. You're gonna see, you're gonna see some changes right away. I think that's where, depending how deconditioned they are, they're not doing anything. They're going to see a great, you know, rise in strength and, you know, in all aspects. But then the tough part is when they start to plateau, right. And where they're not seeing the gains, it's like anything. And that's where they got to dig in and be committed. Because everybody, you know, whether it's a diet or whether it's a resolution of some kind or some type of change that they're trying to make, you're super motivated at the beginning. And then it's, it's trying to stay. Keep that motivation when it's not fun anymore. It's just work. Because I've been working with people for years, right. And the trick is how can I keep them mentally emotionally connected, engaged for an hour when they've been coming seeing me for years? It's easy. When it's, you know, early on, everything's new. It's like dating. A new dating relationship. [00:34:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:27] Speaker A: And I think that's where the challenge for me every week is. How can I create an experience where they can have fun, work hard and still put effort? Because it's effort, right? You gotta work hard when you're there and. But also have fun too, so. But yeah, it happens quick. It can happen real quick if. Depends on what kind of preexisting issues they have. If they're coming in. Sometimes they come in and they're in pain and there's like, I don't care about getting stronger. I don't care about. I'm in pain and I'm. I'm tired of being in pain. So, yeah, it's kind of finding out what their why is in the moment. But for sure, you can see gains, strength gains come within usually a month. The balance can come within a couple weeks. The real tough one is mobility and flexibility. If you got somebody that's been sedentary or Been injured and they're just tight, they're bound up. Whether it's stress or whatever it is, it takes a while to get them unlocked. [00:35:30] Speaker B: I learned something from that the other day when I shot that video on weight shift the next day. So I was trying to demonstrate basically, as a way to find that pressure that you need to feel in your leg, do the one legged jumps. And I literally made the comment in the video, and y' all see it when you get a chance to see the video that, you know, don't jump if you're not in shape. Right. Like, if you're not athletically fit to do this, then just do like little calf raises or something. The next day after shooting the video, I had terrible knee pain. Had to take two Tylenol to go to Solly's. So dress said, don't do it if you're not in shape. I was sore the next day and I couldn't. Couldn't move. [00:36:02] Speaker A: I mean, what's funny is Tony knows this. It's like, you could be okay on the jump. Some people are really good on the jump. It's the landing is where they get hurt. Yeah. Get it up in the air is the hard part. The landing's the easy part, so. [00:36:15] Speaker B: That's right. I've never heard anything. [00:36:17] Speaker C: Landings are easy when you only get. Yeah, yeah. [00:36:19] Speaker A: I tell my clients sometimes when we're doing like some lateral hops, I'm like, okay, when you hop to the other side, at some point, both feet has to be off the ground. Because if you're just. It's really. You're just stepping from left to right. You have to. Both feet have to leave the ground. [00:36:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Jump. [00:36:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:37] Speaker C: Well, I'm sorry, go ahead. [00:36:41] Speaker B: No, go ahead. I thought of my question, though, so go ahead and finish that. [00:36:44] Speaker C: No, go ahead and ask. Before you forget it. Go ahead and ask. [00:36:46] Speaker B: I won't forget it this time. I won't forget it this time. Keep the conversation going with Mike. I'll come back now. [00:36:52] Speaker C: I was gonna say. Well, and the thing about the weight shift and the pressure shift that the little skaters, the lateral skaters are good for is because not only does it teach you how to get balance disrupted and how to shift pressure, but it teaches you how to catch pressure, too. Because if you don't have good ankle awareness and foot awareness, you'll roll over the right ankle when you go right, sprain your ankle right. You get out of position, you get out of balance. So I think for golf especially, the laterals are fine, but not big, huge Exaggerated ones. People should learn how to do tight little ones because that's really. When we're shifting weight in golf. We're not. We're not talking about this massive sway, right, Garrett, like I was doing with you. It's just this tiny little bit. It is something, but it's not exaggerated. Right? So. But it starts with the ground up. You know, one of my good buddies, Colin McCarthy, who's a great instructor, coaches me and I've learned a lot from him. He talks a lot about the ankles and the feet and learning how to use them and how to turn them on to bank and this, that and the other. But it has to be intentional again, for the size of the swing. And it has to be. You have to be able to control it. Because some people are just all one or nothing. They can go real big, but they can't do these little tiny ones, right? So they don't have good proprioception yet. They don't have good awareness. They don't have strong feet, strong ankles, calves are not turned on. It's all just as you said, it's all bound up and shut off. So. [00:38:05] Speaker A: So tell proprioception. Get. Tell people, like people that hear that that's a four dollar word, five dollar word. What is proprioception? [00:38:14] Speaker B: I just want to volunteer that. And when he says, tell the people who don't understand that, that includes me, by the way. I don't have a clue what proprietary. I can't even say that word. [00:38:23] Speaker C: So I guess, I guess, Mike, tell. [00:38:25] Speaker B: The listeners who don't know anything about that. Yeah, tell the people who don't understand that. [00:38:30] Speaker C: Tell me, tell me if I'm explaining this in a way that would make you know that I'm getting at what you're saying or what you want me to say. So basically, it's awareness of your body in space and time. So if I'm standing on a ball with one foot and I start to go left or right, I should be able to be aware of that balance being disrupted and be aware to know where my balance points are, where my pressure is. But some people, you know, you talk them, you ask them to just roll their foot left, right. I just stand on my feet. I don't know anything about what you're talking about. I just walk. I don't think about it. So there's all kinds of things that have come over the years. They might call them like proprioceptive balls, where like anything, you're standing on an unstable surface, you are activating proprioception in your brain because you're having to subtly find balance. So they used to make these shoes with like balls underneath them where you'd walk and stand on them. And it would be really good for activating your feet, your ankles, your calf muscles, all those, those foot muscles and ankle muscles and calf muscles and shin muscles such that you have to turn them on and you have to use them. And kids develop proprioception just by playing. They run around, they play outside barefoot, they're climbing on monkey bars, they're doing jungle gyms, they're just playing soccer or whatever. Like they learn how to move their bodies and how to catch and maintain balance. And it's. The ones who struggle are the ones who never play any form of sport, don't do anything athletically inclined as adults. They just quit playing sports altogether. And then again they start doing the desk jobs, they sit in the car all day. So their whole body's natural limbic system, the whole like awareness of where you are and balance and coordination just gets completely shut off. Yeah, let's go swing a golf club at 120 miles an hour and try not to hurt ourselves. [00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:08] Speaker B: And I think that's something that I've noticed and we've talked about it before and I've mentioned it in some of the one off videos that I've done. You know, when I try to, when I, whether it's a golf lesson or it's me just trying to work on my swing or whatever, when I'm trying to, to consciously think about bend the right wrist at a 45 degree angle and flex the right elbow at this angle and turn at this angle and jump at this and, and straighten the left leg at this time or whatever. That never really, that, that just makes me very rigid and very structured in the swing or whatever. But when, whenever I try to think about a just a fluid athletic motion, I started hitting the ball a lot better. So the more I can take all these things that you need to do in the golf swing and turn it into an athletic movement and then do things in the gym or even if it's just, you know, around my house or whatever that can replicate those movements, feeling those muscles like we talked about on the last show. I mean, I was doing this the other day when I was just standing on one foot. All of a sudden I'm very aware of what muscles I have to use to maintain balance just standing on one foot. Same thing. What I would do way back in the day. And this has been a minute when I would do P90X and do like the yoga. [00:41:16] Speaker C: That's right. [00:41:17] Speaker B: But I was always, anytime I was trying to do those yoga poses and stuff, I had to really pay attention to which muscles you use in the leg to be able to maintain balance. And to me, and this is just me and my body and my brain or whatever. But I learned more about how to swing the golf club correctly by doing exercises like that, where you can show me which muscles I need to be activating and need to be feeling in the golf swing than I can from watching a video or taking a golf lesson or something where somebody's showing me what. Instead of showing me where I need to be or what I need to do, explain to me what it's going to feel like when I do that correctly and get me in a position where I can. Can learn that. That seems to help my golf swing more than just knowing the mechanics of what you should be doing. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Well, that's one of the things I love about when that we talk about in here. Like Tony, he's a teacher, right? I am too. Tony sometimes uses NASCAR analogies. You know, it's just like finding like you're. Tony tells you to feel something. And it's, it's the proprioception part. There's the audio, there's. There's just trying to find a connection. That's what we're all trying to do. Golly. I was talking to a client. Maybe I mentioned this on, I don't know if I mentioned on the last podcast, but he, I, I talked to him differently about how to do a squat. And I just said, dave, stick your ass out. He goes, what? Say that again. Say that again. [00:42:41] Speaker C: And then Mike pokes it to activate it. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Stick your ass out. My gosh, this makes total sense now. But I mean, you know, we're always trying to find that magic bullet for every client, you know, and to get them to connect, I'm trying to get them to connect their body and their brain in the gym. Tony's kind of get them to connect their body and their brain on the course. And Garrett's just trying to connect his body and his brain to reality. [00:43:10] Speaker C: Yeah, well, so two things. I know I'll add to that two things. One, I'm embarrassed, but I messed up. The limbic system is not what I meant to talk about. So you have to cut that out or leave in my crow eating right here. I said limbic system. I totally mess up on a virtual crowd. Virtual crow. [00:43:26] Speaker A: Just. [00:43:27] Speaker C: Just AI. A crow diving into my mouth. No, but the second saying, that'd be. You probably could do that pretty easy. But the second thing I was gonna say is, I do think, too, though, that students, golfers need to take ownership of their education. They need to take ownership of putting in the work to understand something. You know, not everybody's blessed with Bubba Watson creativity and just talent. He talks about that shoddy hit at the Masters, and to hear him describe it, he's like, oh, I just. I knew I needed to hook it a lot, so I kind of just hooded the face and made sure I swung into out and it worked. Right. You don't need to be Bryson either, though. You don't need to know everything about barometric pressure and altitude and, you know, But I'm saying, like, if. If you have a coach like Mike or myself who says, hey, these are the things you need to work on, take ownership of it and do it, you know, it's a terrible student or a terrible mindset to say, I've paid people for information. And like I told, I've said many times on the show, even if you don't leave the lesson with me hitting the ball, perfect, you will have learned something. I want you to learn something. Then you can do something with that. If you don't understand it, ask more questions. But you can't be a lazy student and expect results. It just doesn't work that way. I mean, we'll happily take your money, but, I mean, you know, it's up to you at the end of the day to do something with it. Like, Mike could write a great workout program. Mike, how many times do you have people come to you and you're like, oh, how'd the week's workouts go? And they're like, oh, I only work out when I come to see you. Right. So it's like, what the. You know, I'm right. And you're happy to take the money. You're happy to take the money, but you're like, you're not really going to get anywhere doing one workout a week with me when I've told you to do the other stuff. So if nothing else out of this, golfers and people in general, let's take ownership of our education. Let's take the information that's out there, that's given to us to help guide us, and let's actually seek to understand it. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that there's something. I don't know if this is. This might end up being something that gets cut out, but today when I. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Was watching, like, we've said that, like, six times. [00:45:28] Speaker B: This is going to end up being a. This is going to be a six minute minisode when we're done editing. But when, like today when I was hitting, when I was doing that ladder drill, I think I was at like maybe 131 yards or something like that. I'm like dead stuck in between clubs. Like, that is as in between a gap wedge and a pitching wedge as I can be. And I'm just like kind of hitting the. The pitching wedge as easy as I can, and I hit it well. And then I get to like the 138 shot and. Or the 140, whatever it was. And it's not. It's still not quite to a full wedge. But I'm just kind of telling myself just hit it a little harder. I don't know what I was physically doing differently, but in my brain, it. There was something that. Whether it was just a little bit more acceleration or it was just total feel, it's all it was, was feel. And I picked up seven or eight yards. Okay. So when I'm on a golf course, I may not be able to describe to you how I go from 130 to 138. What's important is that I do know how to get. For me, internally, I know how to get from 130 to 138. So you're right, Tony, in that taking ownership for yourself. You can tell me how to shift my weight to my right side, how to not. How to get out of my sway, how to train it, how to practice it, how to do it. But at the end of the day, it comes. It falls on me to figure out what does that mean to me? What does that feel like to me? I can give you feedback and say, this is how it feels when I do this. This is how it feels when I can do that. You can tell me, no pigeon toe is a bad idea. You don't want to do that. Try this instead. But at the. At the same time or at the end of the day, the player has to figure out how to do the thing that the coach is telling them to do. And it is a part. You know, it's a partnership or you're kind of. It's a dance both do with each other to try to understand the other one and communicate. The player can't just walk away from the lesson and say, I didn't learn anything. This guy's a terrible teacher. Some of it's on you too, man. You know, you gotta figure it out for yourself too. [00:47:18] Speaker C: Yeah. And so you could probably tell more about this story, too. So you said, I came and met you at Sully's the other day. I came to pick up the gift card, and I had a few minutes. I just got through giving my lesson and practicing, and Garrett. I come in there, and Garrett's working on something with his driver, and he's like, I'm just too flat. And I looked at one swing, and I said, cool. Pick your arms up as you rotate. And sure enough, he did it. And the very first swing, I said, perfect. And he was like, no. And he watches it on video, and it's like, perfect. It's just like, so. But, yes, but sometimes, yeah, we get stuck in these ruts. And that's where another set of eyes, another set of advice or counsel can be so beneficial is because Garrett obviously had been working on something for a while there, and all it took was one look from another person to be like, do this. And then he got where he wanted. Right. So there's. There's definitely a dynamic aspect to a coach or teach relations or coach or coach student relationship. But I still think at the end of the day, again, you don't have your golf coach with you 24 7. You don't have the golf course on the sidelines. So you don't. You ha. You don't have Mike in there pushing you to do a workout. So you've got to take ownership and do it on your own at some point. [00:48:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Well, that kind of. I know we've got, like, five minutes left here, but that's a good way to kind of tie in a question that I had me and you talked about that. [00:48:35] Speaker C: You. [00:48:35] Speaker B: What you told me was perfect felt great to me. That's how I used to swing the golf club, and that's. That feels exactly where I would like it to be. But at some point or another, I got down this rabbit hole of working with some guys that were trying to get me flatter and trying to get me deeper and trying to, it just seems like, flatten my swing out a little bit. And I. That, honestly, that was around 2017, 2018, when I really got back into play and my game went to hell in a hand basket and. And I'm just now starting to kind of find it back, because that doesn't work for me. Whether that's the wrong way to teach it or that just doesn't work for my body type or doesn't work for whatever, I don't swing well. When I swing flat, I feel much more comfortable. When I'm Picking the club up earlier, when you say just lift the, you know, start the swing by lifting. I had done that working on my own before. I just felt like that was too steep because that's what I've been told by a lot of people. Then you, you know, you've kind of showed it to me on video and said, no, it's not. But you and I talked about it after that. There does seem to be a movement in the last few years over some period of time to flatten the swing out. Where does that come from? And you know, when did it start? Why did it start? What are the pros and cons for it? Because I feel like that is a big move here in the last few years is people telling people working towards that more flatter, deeper swing. And that's coming kind of more inside out. [00:49:52] Speaker C: Yeah. So big question, big answer, right? [00:49:57] Speaker A: We've got six minutes. [00:49:58] Speaker C: There's a lot of aspects to it obviously. So real quick rundown of different types of golf swings that were categorized back in the 90s or whatever. I forget when Jim Hardy's two plane one plane book came out, but two plane versus one plane swing. If we set up and the shaft is on this angle at address. Right. A more one plane swing would have the club going back and staying on parallel to that and then returning down, bang, and back around the other way. So the arc that it sets at address is going to be pretty much the same arc that it's in the entire point of swing. So it's very symmetrical in that respect. Two plane. Think more like Jim Fury, Fred Couples, golfers of older days who used to have more vertical takeaway and then they'd shallow it in the downswing. So it's just a typically a reference point to set up impact and in between. Now if you look at physics, think about towing a rope and a boat behind the rope in order to make the people in the raft go around the corner. All that boat has to do is turn around, turn right, it turns and then they get slung shot out. So there's a video with Sasha McKenzie and Chris Como. They made quite a while back discussing the physics of this. And that's where the whole low left thing came. When you the handle goes around the body low and left. The physics of that motion kick the club out for you so you can keep the club behind you for a longer period of time, not come over the top. And then you get a lot of like slingshot lag that comes out that way. That's one way to do it. One way to release the club. That's where the more body rotation came in. The body releasing the club versus hands releasing the club came in as well. Not to say that one is right or wrong. Not to say one is more efficient, less efficient, whatever. Obviously, each one has its own. You know, some people who can't rotate well, that whole thing might not be best for them. You start getting too shallow and too flat, you start to get into issues with rough, right. How are you going to hit it? How are you going to get it out of the rough when you got to come more steep on it? And your swing plane is super shallow. You know, people can get stuck if they come too, too far, too flat, club gets too deep, as Garrett was saying, and then the only way they can go is club behind them. And if they can't get out of the way in time, then they're stuck and blocked out. Right. Which I think is what was happening with Garrett with those huge blocks. And then snap hooks was. I mean, your club path was like 9 degrees in to out sometimes. And yeah, you know, that's, that's a function of going that far in if you can't get out of the way real fast. You look a lot of these golfers who are super shallow, they're a lot open at impact. You know, the upper and lower body is a lot more open at impact versus someone who's a little bit more up and down with it. So again, it's a huge topic, a huge something to dive into at another point on camera, Right. With some tools and lines and stuff like that and some examples. [00:52:54] Speaker B: Yeah, we should, we should, we should get together and talk about that and maybe video some of that too. Because even that, even the one plane thing, I mean, I told you I'm. I'm wearing the red and black today. I guess. So it's a good time to bring up Tiger, but I actually went back and pulled some of Tiger's old, like 2000 film when he was young. Know, winning literally everything. And it's a one plane swing. He's on the same plane line, but I'm going to use a McDonald's straw here. [00:53:18] Speaker C: You can swing the finest golf past ever. [00:53:23] Speaker B: You can swing it on this side of a plane or you can swing it up and down this plane. This is steeper, but it's still on one plane. And I feel like Tigers was a little bit more of a quote unquote steeper plane, but it's still a one plane swing. Straight up, straight down. It's just on A little bit more of a steep. A steeper. Probably too much to unpack on this one, but I think it would be a fun thing to dive more into later. [00:53:44] Speaker C: I'm going to be super impressed to see what you come up with out of this dude. [00:53:49] Speaker B: This is going to be. This is going to be the Tony and Mike show. I'm going to have to edit me completely out, and it's just going to look like the two of y'. [00:53:56] Speaker A: All. Well, you can find us. You can find us. Next time on the Next Best. We're the next best podcast. [00:54:04] Speaker B: That's right. [00:54:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:05] Speaker B: Yeah. If we survive this episode with any subscribers, it'll be a small miracle. If you are listening to us on Spotify or itunes or not. It's not even itunes anymore. It's Apple Podcasts. If you're watching or listening to us on Spotify or Apple or Amazon, any of that stuff, check us out on YouTube as well. The best golf podcast ever, if I can get it right. Doing a lot of stuff over there. If you are watching on YouTube, please, like the video, like the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, do all that kind of stuff. It doesn't cost you anything, but it helps us promote the show more and, you know, makes us more popular, which we have, I think, what, seven kids between us. We got a lot of mouths to feed. Help us out here, so. All right, guys, enjoy your weekends. [00:54:46] Speaker A: Thanks, guys. Show. And, I mean, we got. [00:54:53] Speaker B: We got kids in the background. I'm in the McDonald's. [00:54:56] Speaker A: Is he leaving? I think you do it. [00:55:00] Speaker B: I give up. I gotta go outside. This is. This is. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Wait, is. Is the. Is the ball pit area open? Can you go down? [00:55:10] Speaker B: No ball pit here. There's no ball pit here. We're gonna have to sit outside and do it. Sorry, this is just not. This is not gonna fly. This entire episode may end up just getting thrown out. Can you still even see me? Okay, let me try another side. Oh, we'll see. [00:55:25] Speaker A: Bentley. Tony. [00:55:26] Speaker B: Hey, there we go. Your damn horns in the background. Just got to wait for this transfer. Hang on. Wait for this transfer. Corrective. One sec. [00:55:37] Speaker C: What you say, Mike? [00:55:39] Speaker B: I'm sorry. There's a really loud, like, band, like, tour band that is driving through the parking lot here. This is the worst. [00:55:47] Speaker A: Shout out to sus. [00:55:49] Speaker B: Shout out. Su in do league. [00:55:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:53] Speaker B: I had a question for Tony there, and I blanked out for a second when the. When the horn honked, it distracted me. Yeah, that threw me off big time. Yeah. The McDonald's parking lot was not the best idea I've ever had. I mean, and I've had some bad ones, but this was this one right out there.