The Process of Preparation

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Because I used to get to the golf course an hour and a half early also so that I could have a good full practice session. Right. And that's not the DMO at all. So what I'm. We've already discovered you are not the. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Six month stretch of progression. That's right. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Welcome to Making the Turn, the imperfect pursuit of better golf with PGA professional Tony Roselli and TPI certified trainer Mike Hendricks. I'm Garrett. Lil. I don't have any letters. I just play a lot of golf. Teaching kind of your passion for the game. Right? And yours is obviously the fitness side. [00:00:41] Speaker B: How old are you again? [00:00:43] Speaker C: 49. [00:00:43] Speaker B: 49. And he looks like he's 35. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Seriously, I love this guy already. You really do. I thought me and you were the same age. I didn't realize there was that big of a gap between us. You're much wild. I mean, mentally and emotionally, definitely, but physically, I thought we were about the same. I always knew you were a little wiser. Better decision maker. [00:01:04] Speaker B: I'm gonna go look at a 2002 Z06 Corvette right after this. Oh, wow. Decision making. Well, mine is totaled on a technicality. I had a 2008 and basically, long story short, had a stupid accident. Wasn't really my fault. But the airbag did deploy, but I didn't hit it going fast enough to like, actually hit the airbag. Like, I just watched the airbag deploy. Apparently it just hit it right on the airbag sensor, the front left of the bumper. Long story short, they got the thing ready to go to paint, and it's been two and a half months. And I'm like, I get my baby back, right? And they tell me, they say, we'll have it to you next week. Cool. Fifteen minutes later, I get a call from insurance. I'm so sorry to tell you this, Mr. Rosselli, but we're gonna have to total the car. And I was like, what? They were like, due to North Carolina state law, we have to replace the airbag with an OEM unboxed from a manufacturer or a dealership that has one. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:56] Speaker B: It's more than your long story shot. We can't find an AirB. The entire nation. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:01] Speaker B: And they're discontinued. [00:02:03] Speaker A: So the airbag being deployed, it gets total in a technicality. It's not like a North Carolina statute that says if the airbag was deployed. [00:02:09] Speaker B: It has to total. [00:02:10] Speaker A: It's just that airbags are freaking expensive to replace that. That always ends up being the way it goes. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Well, and it's not even. It wasn't even the price, because they had factored in the price already. A new airbag was that they could not find one. And you can't go to the junkyard and get an OEM airbag that hasn't been deployed because there's no way to prove that or to prove it's an OEM or whatever. And so they were like, we all learned something here. But they gave me a check for more than I paid for it. So now I get to go shopping again. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Nice. Exciting. That must have just happened after we met, because you were still at the vet. You were driving the vet, and we were at Eagle Ridge that day. Yep. [00:02:40] Speaker B: It happened, like, April, probably 13th. I was on the way back from Target with groceries from my son's birthday party. And that was just another, you know, what I've been through this year. So that was another just nail in the coffin. [00:02:54] Speaker A: So introductions here. Tony Roselli, you were the director of the PGM program at NC State. Mike, you are me and you met several years ago. Mike Hendricks. Get the last name in there. Mike Hendricks. You. We met 2017. Pre Covid. Yeah, Pre Covid. You were my workout coach for a while when I was working out. Yeah, yeah. That's how I considered you. You know, workout coach. So you do your own thing as you're a TPI certified trainer. [00:03:24] Speaker C: Hired gun. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Hired gun. And you have a baseball background, but you play golf now, and you're not exclusively with golfers. Right. [00:03:30] Speaker C: You work with, you know what primarily, which is nice because it kind of fits into my coaching background. I was thinking about this on the way over. Like, I love that. So I still get to scratch, kind of that coaching itch because I work with guys that still play, and there's a competitive aspect to it. So I am different than the norm. So in the fitness business, it's probably 60, 40, working with females. I bet I'm probably 80, 20 guys. Probably 20% are females. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Because of the golf piece. [00:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Tony and I just bumped into each other at Eagle Ridge, playing. [00:04:09] Speaker B: One day, and we're playing like, nine holes or something like that. I think you paired up with us. Yeah. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Yeah. We were both. Well, no, I think I caught you on the fourth hole. I think it was just me and you. I think I caught up with you. [00:04:17] Speaker B: No, I think my buddy Joe was there, too. [00:04:19] Speaker A: Was it okay? [00:04:19] Speaker B: I know it might have just been me and you. I don't know. [00:04:21] Speaker A: We were both just kind of knocking the rust off and just, like, getting out and getting a few holes in. You're the director of the PGM program. But as I've gotten to know you more, your real passions with teaching and then as I learned more about you, you also have a physiology background, more or less. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:37] Speaker A: My thinking originally was like, let's get sort of experts in different fields and different things. And then I've just compiled a group of people that y' all both know way the heck more about golf than I do. And I'm just kind of now the host that's just going to kind of facilitate. Facilitate Yalls talking, I guess. But between the two of you, you know the game really well, but you also know the body really well. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So my golf story starts. It's really weird. So I grow up with not a lot of money in the house. Me and my twin brother were both first generation college students. Golf was never really on the table for us for sport. And my twin brother didn't really play sport after like middle school. But I grew up a Tiger fan, right? Everybody watched Tiger. If you were a kid in the 90s, right. [00:05:17] Speaker A: So then you were about the exact same age, right? 39. [00:05:19] Speaker B: I turned 39 Thursday. So, yeah, for the babies. The babies, yeah. But yeah, so golf was never really on the radar. We had like one country club in our small town where all the rich kids kind of went and played and did stuff and. But like my sophomore year of high school, my best buddy at the time was like, hey, man, we're gonna go try for the golf team. And I was like, I play basketball. I run track, the free stuff, right? I don't play golf. What are you talking about? He's like, nah, man, they get out all day on Mondays for golf tournaments. I was like, let's go drive the golf team. No school and just go to a golf course. So I. No joke. My dad was like, I don't have any clubs for you. Aside from these ones that are up in the attic. They were 1970s persimmon heads and Spalding blades, butter knives. You know, a big single leather strap, like, pro bag. And I remember never forget going up to the first golf tournament. And again, 90s, so baggy pants and a basketball T shirt and dress shoes. I get out of my truck and the coach goes, what the hell are you doing? I was like, I'm here for the tournament. He was like, you need a collared shirt. I was like, you didn't say that. Like, what are you talking about? He's like, so he goes to the pro shop, buys me a collared shirt. He goes back up I probably shot. It was like double par max. So I think I shot like 120 or 130 or whatever. Just having fun, you know. And then after that, just played the last few years of high school. I think it was junior senior year or whatever. Didn't really do much with it because I couldn't afford it. And so it wasn't until I got to Texas A and M University, which is where all my degrees are from. We transferred in there after junior college and one of my classmates from high school just happened to be working at a driving range there. And I was like, wow, you want to hook it up, like with some free balls or whatever? And he was like, sure, yeah. So he let me hit a few free balls from time to time. And I kind of got that itch of like, this is fun. Like I don't have competitive basketball anymore. I don't have competitive track and field. I was still a young athlete, still wanted something to pursue. So golf was kind of filling that void. Long story short, another buddy was working at the campus course. He said, hey, do you like to golf? I said, yeah, but I can't afford it. He said, well, come work with us and you can play for free every day, practice for free every day. So that's what I ended up doing and working at the golf course at Texas A University and played and practiced, giggle, got the ring on and everything. They're terrible at football, always underperform. All that money anyway, you can take that out. But yeah, so then I fell in love with it because I actually got to play and money wasn't an issue and I got to have fun and enjoy it. And I found out I was somewhat talented at it. And I'm only five, eight and a half hundred and not going to say how much right now, but we'll call it sub 175. But really started enjoying it and figured out I had some talent for it and got down to like a mid-70s golfer. Then got married, got into grad school, master's, PhD program, couldn't play that much, had kids and then Covid hits. And I was doing some coaching on the side, some golf coaching on the side and dabbling with my own, like chasing scratch type goals. It's funny, the chasing scratch podcast guys and I both started like at the exact same time. Really. Do you know those guys? Mike and Eli? [00:08:17] Speaker A: I was actually playing golf with somebody the day he's listening to a podcast, what do you listen to? Me, it was the chasing scratch. [00:08:21] Speaker B: So I started getting emails because I had the email address chasing scratchmail.com. and I had like Instagram and stuff like that. I get these emails. We loved the last episode. Keep it up, guys. And I'm like, who are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about. This started happening over and over as they started gaining steam. So I looked up Chasing Scratch podcast. I was like, holy crap, there's another one. And so I messaged them. I was like, look, you guys seem to have a lot more success going on. Like, I'll bow out. You know, I'm not gonna like compete with you guys. Cause I was just doing it for fun. I didn't have any aspirations or anything like that. But yeah, that's my. How I know Mike and Eli, I guess through messaging or whatever. And apparently they lived in North Carolina too. Mike did for a little while, or still does. [00:09:02] Speaker A: That's what I heard. Sort of in this area. Greensboro area. [00:09:04] Speaker B: Yeah, they were playing like at River Ridge and stuff. That's where I haven't played that course yet. But anyway, so I was coaching, doing some stuff on the side with golf. Covid hits. I had tenure at my last university, which you don't leave after you get tenure unless you're a moron. But Covid hits. And my then wife and I look at each other and we're both miserable, we're bored, we're like, I don't really want to be in Texas. I hate my job. I don't really like being here. Find something new to do. And we were both kind of lifelong Texans. And one day she just googled golf professor job just to see if I could somehow merge the two. And lo and behold, NC State PGM program had a player development internship coordinator position open. So she said, apply for it. If you get it, we'll move and start over in North Carolina, you know. So long story short, that's how we got here. And now I'm the director of the program. Unfortunately, it's being discontinued, but get the opportunity to develop a new program going forward. But that's. Yeah. And then I started coaching daily, you know, the golf swing and strategy and everything with my students. Because they've got to pass the PGA's Player Ability Test to graduate from college. If they don't pass that, they literally cannot walk across the stage and get their diploma. It's a very stressful, high pressure job in that respect. And I like that you use the term coach, because that's what it is. It's not an instructor, it's not a trainer. It's I'm going to tell you what you need to do, but at the end of the day you got to do it. Because when you're like, I used to do powerlifting too, right? And if you've got 405 on your back in a squat and your coach isn't there to spot you, like, you either need to not do it or you need to know you can do it. You don't need to be guessing. Could I pick this up? But a good coach will get you to that point, right? [00:10:42] Speaker A: I'm in my second and a half comeback in golf, depending on how you wanted to find one of them. I started about the second time you, when I met you, that was my second. That was my one and a half comeback 1.5. Yeah, that was comeback 1.5. So I started playing when I was nine. So I'm celebrating my 30 year anniversary in this game, I guess if you think of it that way. And by the time I was 11, my mom's dropping me off the golf course at 7 in the morning on the way to work, picking me up at dark. And I'm playing as much as I can and you do anything that many hours, you're gonna get decent at it. So I played as hard as I could play till I was about 21. And somewhere in there there was my half break. My freshman year of college. Me and golf, we didn't really break up. We didn't really agree to see other people. We just agreed not to see each other for a little while. [00:11:28] Speaker B: I had stresses like that too. [00:11:29] Speaker A: I just had to take a minute. So we took, I took about six months off and, but it felt like a comeback at that point. That's the first one I'd ever taken any time off. But then, you know, played through college and took a long break. Life happened, I got married and I'll never forget I was taking lessons from a guy and sat down and had the, you know, the heart to heart with him. I'm about 21. I was like, you know, do I have a shot at this? And he said, yeah, you can. You've got a shot at it, but you need to move to Florida and work at a club and make 20 grand a year and play as much as you can. And you know, he kind of paints out the roadmap to the tour. And I'm like, yeah, she's never gonna go for that. So it's either her golf and I'm like, nah, we'll settle down, have a real life. So do that. And Play until, you know, I kind of quit playing. I got back into, you know, country club life a little bit and networked and did some work stuff there, but wasn't really playing seriously. Then when I got divorced, that's where you come into the scene, Mike. When I got divorced in 2017, I'm like, all right, made the wrong decision 10 years ago. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Should have stuck with golf. [00:12:31] Speaker A: Should have stuck with golf. I'm going back in at full speed, hard as I can. And, I mean, I lived it for about three years, and for that stretch, my game probably got worse. Over that three years, I was just so obsessed. So then that time when I quit, I thought I was done for good. I was. Didn't touch a club or think about a club for years. And then just, you got the itch last year, and, okay, I'll go hit some balls. And then one thing leads to another, and I kind of found myself about the beginning of this year, like, okay, I'm gonna get serious about this again. So I'm about my six month or so of getting back into it a little bit. And what I've learned, though, is my game is getting so much better, so much faster now than it did years ago. What I've learned is that all those old men at the golf course when I was 12 or 13 were really right. If I'd been listening about what really helps your golf game and what really is irrelevant. So you and I have talked about that a lot, and Mike and I have talked about that a lot, and it's like, okay, how do we better prepare as golfers? I'm here for free lessons as much as anything else. [00:13:31] Speaker B: You know, I mean, so give me three, right? [00:13:35] Speaker A: So you're going to help my swing, and you're going to get me back in shape, and. [00:13:38] Speaker B: But now that's what we really got roped in. [00:13:40] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. I didn't tell you all that before we hit record, but for me, I think I like this. If you gave me a choice, and this is the dumbest thing in the world to save, and I mean it, if you would have given me a choice five years ago and said, okay, you can have a swing that looks exactly like Rory's and you're going to shoot 75, or you can take the swing you've got right now, I know you don't like it, and it's not the prettiest thing in the world, but you'll shoot 65 every single day. As dumb as it sounds, I would have taken the swing. I'M that vain. I wanted my swing to be perfect. If you'll make my swing look perfect and give me the strength that Rory's got and the flexibility that he's got and make me look like that, I don't care If I shoot 100. I just want to look that good on a golf course. I swear, I think that's a lot of golfers kind of fall into that camp. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:19] Speaker A: We're more concerned with what it looks like than how it performs. And would you say. I mean, I'm trying to think of a number. 95% of it doesn't matter. I mean, there's a really, really big number that. [00:14:31] Speaker B: So one of the things I do and like. So also pga, right? That's part of my background as well. More recently, when I got here to NC State, they decided to pay for my PGA education, which is something I also. When I finished my master's, I was either gonna go PhD or PGA. And I had really good mentors who was like, go, PhD. You could always do the PGA later. So, sure enough, I did. That's what I ended up doing. So now I get to do it all. And it's really kind of awesome. But one of the things I do in my teaching and coaching classes, which is where we teach concepts of how to coach and teach our students, to teach other students going forward, I show them this highlight reel of the top 10 goofiest swings you've ever seen on the tours, right? All the way from Nancy Lopez and Jim Thorpe, you know, to Lee Trevino. And I mean, even. You could almost even call Sergio and Ben Hogan. They were outliers for their day. How flat and single plane they were, right? How much lag and everything they only became models for later, right? So, yeah. But, you know, the only thing that really matters is impact. Now, it's like, who crossed the finish line first. That's one thing, right? But how did they get there is also part of the equation. Did someone else crash and they just happened to get by at the right time or whatever. But. So there's a lot to it. But, yes, you're right. There's so much to the. To the golf swing and to ball flight and to impact. That has nothing to do with how the golf swing looks. There are more efficient ways and less efficient ways, but there is no, quote, unquote, like, perfect way, because as I'm sure you would attest, every time you get someone new to come work with you on the physical coaching side of things, there are no two bodies that Are built the same. [00:16:10] Speaker C: Sure, Absolutely. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Based off of how we sit at our desks. Right posture. I'm always trying to work on my posture. I have a stand up desk at work and everything. But to injuries to. Yeah, one bicep's bigger than the other. It's just. It's a. It's a puzzle and amalgamation of parts bin stuff. It's not like the Vitruvian man, you know, so. [00:16:32] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:16:33] Speaker A: When you and I were working together a few years ago, if I wanted to look like Rory, the number one reason I wanted to look like Rory was so I could hit at 350 yards like Rory. I was. And for better players, you should know better than to just be so focused on power. But I was. I had this like little man syndrome thing developing where I was like, I'm so little, but I'm gonna have to overco that and become so. So everything I was thinking about was trying to hit the ball further. And you and I worked together for a year or so and I got stronger, I got more athletic. I got in every way, shape or form was in better shape, but I wasn't hitting it any further. And that was really frustrating me. And so. So in. [00:17:09] Speaker C: In the. In the training world, we say, what? [00:17:13] Speaker A: What's your why? [00:17:14] Speaker C: And I think I didn't realize at the time your why. Oh, yes. This is why. Because you're hammering me every. Why are we doing this? [00:17:23] Speaker A: What is this for? [00:17:24] Speaker C: How's this gon? And you painted the picture like, I'm short, but I want to hit the ball really, really far. And like, you were single, focused. And I was always like, scratching my head like, why is he? But I don't think I understood it totally back then. [00:17:43] Speaker B: Little man syndrome's a tough one. [00:17:44] Speaker C: I didn't want to say it. [00:17:45] Speaker A: I'm six one. Yeah, you don't fight. And I fixed half of the being little problem. I'm not little in the girth area now. I'm still short, but I put some pounds on ye that problem. [00:17:59] Speaker B: So I'm not gonna cut you off, but let me. Let me ask. [00:18:01] Speaker A: There is no cutting off. This is just. [00:18:03] Speaker B: So when you were training him or coaching him, rather on the physical side of things, because I have the TPI stuff as well. Only level 1, but I have the TPI background as well. What, in your experience, what was it that you were trying to focus on with him to get more power out of his build? Like, was he too vertical? Ground reaction was rotational. Like, what was he doing? [00:18:22] Speaker C: So, great question. So when I work with people like Garrett. He brings the median age of my clients way down. I work at a country club half the time, and so it is kind of a running joke with my younger clients because, you know, most of my clients are over the age of 60. So by the time you're getting to 60, they've had something replaced. They've had multiple surgeries. [00:18:46] Speaker B: And I'm like, engine rebuild, transmission rebuild. [00:18:49] Speaker C: So my first thought is, you know, do no harm, okay? And that's just like, the last thing I want to do is get somebody hurt, because then they can't play, and then they have to go through the whole rehab thing. And so Garrett was somebody that I feel like was constantly kind of kicking me in the butt. And it's good. I think we get caught stuck in ruts sometimes because I'm working with older guys, and he's like, push me more. I want more. Give me more. And so I think it's been a while since we worked together, but I think that was for me. I was like. At times he was dragging me along because I was like, okay, I can still push him because he's. You know, you were in your early 30s then, and you were like, give me more. And so it was fun because it's a good challenge for me because I had to get out of that mindset of, you know, you're not 60 plus. You can hand. You know, you could handle more. [00:19:38] Speaker A: We should try it again sometime. I think you might see a change. [00:19:41] Speaker B: You might have more, more relevant exercises for him at that point. [00:19:45] Speaker A: I like to make sure whatever exercise we're doing now I can do with a bottle of water in my hand so I don't have to, like, take breaks to do it. So this is not a paid endorsement by any means, but Solly's Golf and Gather over in Garner. I've spent a lot of time over there, and I've loved being over there. Oh, man, it's a great place. You gotta check it out. Shout out Mike if you ever listen to this. Mike and Lauren. But having access to the launch monitors and the data has been really helpful for me in learning which things actually move the needle in swing speed and ball speed and which ones don't. And there were a lot of things that I found in my golf swing that helped me, you know, add 2, 3, 4 miles an hour every time I did it. Where some other things that I was working really hard with you on trying to figure out, you know, trying to get more flexibility and more extension at the top, and More power with this and all. When I do those things perfectly, it may add a mile an hour to my clubhead speed. But then there's other parts of my swing that are very simple and very easy for me to do physically. That if I just focus on those, add three or four miles per hour, do those things change person to person? So if I, if I take my checklist of mine are weight shift and tempo. When I focus on those two things, I get more power. Would that necessarily be the same two keys, physically or mechanically for a 6 foot 470 pounder versus a 6 foot 260, you know, or is that a mechanical question or a physical question or both? [00:21:02] Speaker C: I'll defer to the biomechanism. [00:21:07] Speaker B: But no. So I'll give you a case study example for me. So my golf spy forum, I did a lot of their member tests back in the day and one of them was super speed training the sticks. So I got the behind the scenes look. We got to meet and do like a hour long Q and a session with the founder of Superspeed, this, that and the other. And it's kind of like this. There are thresholds, right? So when I did it, I was mid-30s, I was still training, weight training, powerlifting this, that and the other. I already had good ball speed, good swing speed. My window was smaller, right, for improvement than someone who had never done any training, had never done any fast twitch, muscle fiber stuff, anything. So for me, getting two to three miles an hour faster of club head speed was huge. Right? And that was me going all out, doing the routine, doing the regimen, still doing my plyometrics and my powerlifting stuff versus some other people who did the testing. All they did was the swing sticks and they gained 10 miles an hour, Right. Because their window was higher, not because they did anything correct. Yeah, it's like, you know, when you're training someone, it's way easy to get someone from benching 100 to 150 in five months who's never picked up a barbell before, than it is taking the power lifter from 405 to 415 because they're already at their biological, physiological, great point limit, right? So the stuff he's doing with you probably helps build the foundation for the other stuff to happen, right? It's like I'm a car guy, right? So building a car, you can't go all engine, no brakes, you can't go all suspension, no engine, right? If you want to build the fastest version of the car, it all has to Work together. [00:22:51] Speaker A: And I think of it this way sometimes with. I like that you brought up the car analogy. Because I look at 2017 and I think this is what, you're an older model? Yeah, I'm an older model. [00:23:03] Speaker B: He's got that classic car insurance now. [00:23:06] Speaker A: So at that time I was, I don't remember the exact numbers. I think my squat went from like 2:15 to about 275 or 285 in that range over that time period. [00:23:17] Speaker B: It's a big jump. [00:23:18] Speaker A: I mean, and I'm like, okay, I'm so much stronger. I'm not hitting it any further. Why is that? Well, if you, if you make your engine faster but you don't improve the chassis, you've got all that speed going into that turn, but you can't, all that's gonna do is make it easier to wreck, right? You can't, you can't maintain that speed. And for me, it's one of the things that I'm, I'm curious to find out, and I was telling you before we started this, the whole show is about, you know, being more prepared and practicing better and doing smarter, more efficient things to make your game better. One of the areas that I've completely neglected in this little six month run has been the physical side. I've been going to Solis and I'm hitting golf balls and I'm hitting it fine. And then if I hit, if I get a little sore, I take a bath, a hot salt bath, and soothe my muscles. [00:24:03] Speaker B: But that was gonna be what I was gonna ask you, right? Because to me, even if the physical side, you don't see a direct correlation to increase in swing speed or whatever, or it doesn't make you swing better, it's like preventative maintenance. It's like your oil changes. It's like making sure your brake pads are good. Because if you're sore all the time, that means your muscles aren't really. It's amazing primed or strong enough to handle that overuse. That's why the Tour players still train, right? Like they go into the Tour truck and train for an hour before, maybe an hour after, whatever. Even if they're not like in growth season or strength gain season, they're in maintenance to try and prevent injury. [00:24:38] Speaker A: And that's something that, as you use today as an example, because I didn't, I didn't play for the last couple of days and usually if I've had a couple of days off, my swing speed will actually take a dip just because I'm not Almost. You think of it in cycles. Like the first day of a cycle, I might be a touch below my baseline. Second and third day, I start to peak. By the fourth or fifth day, fatigue starts to kick in. And then usually that fifth day is when I'm really, really struggling today, even for a first day. Man, I got my very first warm up swing. I was like, oh, this is gonna be a rough day. I mean, I was really hurting and I didn't. I only hit balls about. I hit about 20 balls. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna go play a simulated round because this is not going to be. [00:25:21] Speaker B: You don't have the endurance. [00:25:22] Speaker A: I just didn't have it today. But the reason for it is it's 100 and freaking 50 outside. Okay. This is the first week here in North Carolina that I've really been tested physically at all. Even though I'm inside hitting these balls, it's still your. I'm tired sitting here talking to you guys, you know, so I'm just starting to realize how fat and old that I really am. It didn't bother me in April when it was 75 degrees. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:42] Speaker A: You know, but it was perfect timing for us to sit here and talk about the physical side because I probably lost 5 mph swing speed from Saturday to today just because I'm patting on. [00:25:55] Speaker B: I love to look at the human body and humans in general as machines because same thing, when it's summertime, your Corvette does not go as fast because of heat. Right. Cold air moves, is better at compression. All of this. And the other hot air doesn't move fast. You get engine fade because. Or speed fade because the car gets hot, brake fade the car, the brakes get hot, they slow, they don't brake as well. They're not as efficient. So yeah, it's a huge part of it for sure. And if you think about most people who are playing golf, unless they're retired, don't play every single day. They might play once a week, they might play twice a week or nine holes in the middle of the week and 18 on the weekend. So they don't notice it as much unless they're hitting balls every day on the range or they walk their round of golf. But if you ever start playing these amateur events or like I play in some stuff, it's like two day stuff. If your body's not strong and capable by that second day, you might be toast. If you've been playing two or three practice rounds beforehand, it's a four day tournament at that point, just like the pros do. And none of the pros out there right now, maybe Miguel Angel Jimenez, he's the only one who probably isn't on some type of strength training routine because he's got his own thing and he just smoked the cigar and he love his life, you know, he just likes to go, that's my favorite dude. It's like my spirit animal, but. Right. Like the foundation needs to be there. It's just like anything recovery. [00:27:11] Speaker C: Recovery is a big piece. I've been banging the drum with my. Like I said earlier, my older guys, hydration, sleep, and something as simple as putting the. Leaving the phone downstairs when you go to bed and start drinking water. I had a client. We're communicating, but sometimes there's a breakdown in understanding. [00:27:36] Speaker B: And for beer has water or whatever. [00:27:38] Speaker C: Yeah, well, it was. In his case, it was coffee. And he's like, mike, I had two cups of coffee before I went and played. And I'm like, mike, it's a diuretic that's just gonna make you go to bathroom, you're gonna be leaking fluid, whatever. And. But yeah, hydration is huge. And I, you know, I do. I get more concerned. So now when the guys come in, I'm like, you know, are you planning ahead? Because you're sweating more. So I mean, you have to drink more water now and you have to get more rest. Because these, these guys, they may be over 60, but they're playing. You know, the joke is they play every day that ends in y. A lot of them play Monday through Friday. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Well, that's a good point. Like, you talk about leaking oil, because think about 18 holes of golf. We're talking three and a half on the fast side to five hours in the North Carolina or wherever you're from, son. I'm from Texas originally. Like, we are in the dog days of it. And this is an outdoor sport. So as much as we talked about the golf swing, the golf game is mental. Well, what happens when you start to run out of fluids? Your mental starts to take a toll. You start to get hazy. You can't. That four foot putt, right? It doesn't work. Absolutely. So one of the things I've been doing whenever I've been playing in these tournaments is I have one of those really huge water coolers with me. I fill it up with ice, fill it up with water, and then I pack little electrolyte powder packets with me. Way cheaper than Gatorade, way less sugar than Gatorade. There's no sugar, right. Unless it's a Sugar, alcohol, or something like that, but for flavor. But you just put those in, and you just pound those throughout the day. You might not go to the bathroom at all, but you will realize how much you sweat it. And you will realize, I haven't gone to the bathroom, and I've drunk three of these throughout the day. Holy crap. What if I'm just pounding beers or seltzer waters, you know, and I'm not taking care of my body? It's so fascinating that people think golf should be treated, like, differently than any other sport we play. If I'm playing basketball, I'm hydrating. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:33] Speaker B: If I'm playing football, I'm hydrating. But with golf, they think beer. I'm not saying not exerting myself. I mean, I do it too, right? I'm not exerting myself. But you're still sweating, and that's a chemical process that needs to be replenished. It's so funny. You're like, well, can we talk about hydration? You get two nerds together, and you're gonna get hydration. [00:29:51] Speaker A: I'm loving it, though, because that's exactly the kind of thing that I've observed and learned that's helped me over the last few months, is that it's the little details that make a gigantic difference and stuff that I didn't realize when you and I were working together. When I would go out and play 18 holes, I would get so frustrated at the end of the day because I came up short. You know, you'd go hit balls before you left. You'd go to the range. [00:30:16] Speaker B: I could fix it right after range. I can fix this. Yeah. [00:30:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And you're not gonna fix the problem because the problem is that you're exhausted. So what are you gonna do? Go work out the problem now? Yeah. I think back to so many tournaments I played as a kid. I played in one of the hottest tournaments ever in Charlotte when I was 16. I shot, like, 92 and went straight to the range afterwards. And I remember staying out there until I was seeing double, and I never did fix my swing. I don't know what was wrong. Right. [00:30:44] Speaker B: You just got out of frustration. You were frustrated. You went and hit stuff. And there's a place for that, too, obviously. But so let's also think about this as much as important to be hydrated and prepared physically. It's also important to be in the right frame of mind when you're gonna go practice or train or do whatever. I use this analogy all the time with weight lifting. Again, I Just. It's just a different mentality. Those who lift know when you're going to set a PR or you're going for a 3 rep, whatever. If your brain doesn't think you can do it, you have no business getting under that barbell whatsoever. And I was even thinking about this. In some of the tournaments I've been playing in recently, that opening tee shot, you know, when they call your name, Nexobolante. So and so if you're playing in that type of competitive tournament, or even if it's just, you know, the, the weekend scramble with the guys, if you care, there's pressure. [00:31:30] Speaker C: Okay. [00:31:31] Speaker B: And so if you don't have everything ready to go, that all plays a trick on your mind. Right. So even. Let's just say this. I carry balls in the right pocket, short tees in the right, long tees in the left, divot tool on the left, ball markers on the right. Okay. Now this is. Might be a little anal or whatever, but if I go to that first tee box and it's my turn to hit and I don't have my tees in my pocket and I've got to go back to the bag, that throws the whole thing off. Yeah, I mean, we talk about how important the mental side of things is, but we don't really talk about how important the mental side of things is. And it's just preparation. Be prepared to go compete as if you're an athlete. Yeah, all of those details matter. They all matter. [00:32:12] Speaker A: And I think it matters in every. And I think you and I talked about this when we were talking about the idea of doing this show. I mean, I think that this show is probably more for golfers who are serious about getting better. It doesn't. You don't necessarily have to be someone who is already a scratch golfer or already shooting the 70s, but you have to be serious about getting better for you to really get a lot out of the show. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's your. Why. Why are you listening to the show? Hopefully it's because you want to figure out what are those missing pieces. Even if I'm not built like Rory, even if I am 60, how can I get that one or two strokes better? Whatever. Whatever your goal is. [00:32:47] Speaker A: And we'll probably touch on some swing fundamentals here and there, and we'll switch. We'll definitely talk a lot about on course strategy, and we'll talk a lot about practice. Strategy and practice. What's an effective way to practice versus what's a stupid way to practice? [00:32:58] Speaker B: Basically hitting balls after the Round of golf when you're already stupid. That's stupid. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Yeah. That's pretty stupid. Yeah. [00:33:04] Speaker B: Because your mindset's not right. You're not focused. You're not absorbing any new information. You're not thinking differently. You're just working out frustration. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Simplest way that ever someone ever said this to me. I was out on the driving range one day at my home course, and I was about 13 years old. The pro comeover, he said, what are you working on? It's like, I don't know what I was working on. [00:33:22] Speaker B: That's a great question. [00:33:23] Speaker A: He. I told him, and he said, well, right now, he said, you're trying to fix your slice, and I've watched you hit 18 slices in a row. Whatever you're doing is not working. So all you're doing right now is practicing your bad habit and making it worse. Don't ingrain bad habits. And this sounds almost lazy, I guess, but it's the best thing you can do, I think. If you don't know. I use the phrase, if I don't have a beat on it, then I'm not gonna keep working. I'm not gonna keep beating my head against a brick wall. If I know what I'm trying to do and it's just not quite there yet, then we'll keep working at it. But if I'm just sitting here, like, trying to solve a Rubik's Cube, then it's blindfolded. Yeah. I'm better off going home. I will literally do more good for my game sitting on my couch than I will in this driving range. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:34:04] Speaker A: And there's all kinds of things that all kinds of. Kind of falls into, like practice strategy and mental strategy. But then I get what you're saying. If I have two tees in my right pocket and all my pocket, nothing in my left, except a bottle of eye drops for on the allergy season, that'll stay in my left. And that's even bothering me here lightly. But. And if I have one tee in my pocket, then I gotta go find a second one. Like, that just doesn't sit. I don't know why. [00:34:29] Speaker B: Golfers are very superstitious by the chair. It's more repetitive routine like that. That type of thing. But again, like, think about it. Like, if you're getting amped up to hit that first shot and you're already nervous, and now you've got to go back and get something because you don't have it, like, it's. It's like your big moment to come out on Stage is ready. If you did acting or whatever. And they're like, okay, go. And you realize your flies down. Yeah, your flies down. It's toast. It's done. You know, unless you're just the best Johnny on the spot there is, it's. You're done. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Well, the reason that I have two T's in my pocket, it's not superstition. It's because if I have one T and it breaks and I forget and I get to the next T and I don't have one, then I'm having to. That messes up my next routine because now I gotta go find a T and now I'm thrown off and I can't handle that. So it's. There's a reason for all that. [00:35:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's about being in the flow, right? It's about being in a flow state. So in all other sports, you get into the flow of the game with your teammates, with defense, whatever. And see, even as I'm sitting here, I'm flowing because I'm getting in the flow of what I'm talking. Like, it's just natural waves, the. Like the rhythm of the earth, right? It's part of rhythm, it's part of flow. And so whether we realize it or not, if you are at the level of a golfer where you're trying to actually get better and you're playing in tournaments, whatever the case may be, you have already developed some form of routine or rhythm. You might not be aware of it, but you have. And when people figure, I play really good golf, it felt easy this, that and the other. They're probably in that flow state rhythm and they've got their balls in their pocket, they got this, that and the other. Because once they go to walk up to that tee, it all starts from when you take that first two steps to the tee box. You know, it's a par three. I'm going in my right pocket with the ball, I'm coming out with it all together. Boom. And that's like push play. That starts autopilot. [00:36:07] Speaker A: It does. [00:36:08] Speaker B: And if you don't have that, it throws the flow off. Yeah, it's so crazy, but it's so important to think about as I'm talking about it. That's why you freaking mess this stuff up, because you're not in flow. [00:36:20] Speaker A: Well, and then when you. So that's the mental flow. And then. But I think on the physical side, there's that same pre round checklist that you need to be kind of going through when you're preparing Whether it's preparing to work out, preparing to practice, or preparing to play. One, my bad one is hydration. I'm really terrible to forget about hydration. And when I was playing a lot I can remember, I would go out, I carry. I've got one over there, 20 ounce Gatorade bottles. So I'll drink the Gatorade, but then I reuse those bottles forever and just refill them with water powders. And it was when I was playing at 12 oats, there was a water cooler on like the third, fifth, eighth holes and then another one on 10 and 12. All right. So I knew every single time I would finish the 20 ounce bottle by the third hole, refill it, finish it by the fifth, refill it, finished by the eighth. By the 10th and 12th, I wasn't refilling them as much because I was already. I was full. I was hydrated. So what I learned from that, I think is that I was spending the front nine hydrating, and then by the back nine, I was hydrated enough that I didn't need that anymore. [00:37:21] Speaker B: So do it before the round of golf. [00:37:23] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe I should start drinking 60 ounces of water before I could play golf and I wouldn't feel that way. Another one. I don't know if this is true, but I saw. I was watching a NASCAR race a few weeks ago. It was a really hot day, and the driver was drinking coffee. And they're like, why are you drinking coffee? And he said he was trying to warm up his core temperature before he got in the car. It was gonna be 125 degrees in the car that day. And I don't know if there's any truth. I've googled it. It's a legit thing that's out there. I don't know if it's. You know, just because you saw it on Google doesn't mean it's true. But there's all kinds of little things that we can do to give our body a better chance to execute what we're asking it to execute. And we neglect that completely. [00:37:58] Speaker C: Every once in a while when guys come in, I'm like, how you doing? Because outside stress affects performance, right? Whether it's disagreement with your kid, your spouse, girlfriend, bad night of sleep, work stress. [00:38:13] Speaker A: And so, so there's 2:30am late nights on Fridays. We're helping my Saturday mornings. [00:38:20] Speaker C: I mean, I got clients that travel. I mean, you just go down the laundry list. And so I ask them, how you doing? And then we just get in a conversation. So we're working out, but I'm also finding out, you know, what are, you know, barriers to your performance? And then we try to. Because a lot of times they don't even know. They don't even know what it is. [00:38:37] Speaker B: They're talking about us. [00:38:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:39] Speaker C: How can I help him recognize those things? Because we're all kind of, we have the blinders on and we think, we think we're not being affected by, you know, what's going on at home or whatever. And so once you recognize this piggyback in the flow thing, it's just, what are the barriers to flow, you know? And I always think through the lens of baseball. That was my background. And so, you know, what happens when you get a bad call? What happens when the weather doesn't cooperate? What happens when, you know, your shoulder hurts and what happens when you don't have your good curveball for the day, you don't have the zip on your fastball. So how can you compete with what you have today? And so it's just recognizing that. And, you know, you go and you go to the first tee and you're like, I feel like I'm at like 40%. Well, how can I play at 40%? Piece it together. And then next thing you know, you start making some good shots and you start thinking of, you're not thinking about what's going on outside, you're thinking about what's going on while you're playing. And the next thing you know, you have a great round. It's not. It happens all the time in sports. Guys have bad bullpens. The next thing you know, they throw a one hit shutout. [00:39:58] Speaker A: You know, so have you read the book Golf is not a game of perfect. That's one of the very popular ones in golf world. And it's funny, I was playing Eagle Ridge the other day and this thought came to mind and I thought about it. I was like, that's actually the name of a book. But I was like, 208 out on number seven, the par five and kind of stuck in between where it's like I hit a four iron about 215best. Okay, technically a 208 is gonna get me there, but I really don't like hitting shots. I've learned this over the last little bit. I don't like to hit shots where I've got to hit it perfect to get me where I want to be. [00:40:36] Speaker B: There trying to come down. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Problem is, my next club's A2 iron, which I carry about 230. And I don't really like trying to take off a two iron either. That's kind of a tricky one, too. Especially when you're trying to get some air. [00:40:46] Speaker C: How do you hit your two iron. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Just enough that it's worth keeping it? [00:40:51] Speaker B: That's exactly right. That was a good question. [00:40:53] Speaker A: You have a two iron in your. Yeah, just enough. [00:40:55] Speaker B: It's probably one of those juice driving two irons. It's probably not a traditional two iron. [00:40:58] Speaker A: It's this thing right here. It's not a traditional. It's a driving. Yeah, it's a driving two iron. [00:41:02] Speaker B: So that ain't the same as they used to have. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's probably a club that I need to have examined to see is it the best club to have in the bag. [00:41:10] Speaker B: Yeah. The modern driving irons, is that a sear flex? They look like. [00:41:14] Speaker A: It's a stiff flex. [00:41:16] Speaker B: It's like a pyramid. It looks like a triangle. You see what I'm saying? Because it's. Yeah, they don't hide that very well because there's so much mess. [00:41:21] Speaker A: It's the club in my bag that is up for review next. Put it that way. And that's a whole nother topic, too, is your equipment. You know, how does your equipment match up? But it's. So anyway, my story there. You know the hold I'm talking about? It's. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a little. It's one of the only gettable par 5s in the car. It is. [00:41:37] Speaker A: There's a bunker lift, which is actually not a bad thing because it protects you from the ball getting in the woods. [00:41:42] Speaker B: If you hit the big hook lift, it's not impossible. Up and down. [00:41:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you hit it right, you've got 50 yards at least to miss. Right. [00:41:49] Speaker B: So I'm looking over the hill, and it's all sloping away from you to get on the greens. [00:41:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So as I'm standing over this strategy. [00:41:55] Speaker B: Right now, I'm trying to figure out what he's thinking. [00:41:56] Speaker A: That's right. Well, as I'm standing, I'm thinking I'll play a little draw. So I'm default as I'm looking at the right edge of the green, pins in the front. And as I'm getting ready to hit the ball, I just like, you know what? Yes. I have to hit this perfect to hit it close, but there are 50 different combinations of imperfect shots that are still going to be fine. So why don't you not worry about hitting it perfect? Just try to hit it, make it put a good swing on this thing. And I Hit A good solid B minus 4 iron up the right hand side of the green. It ended up running up, you know, five yards off the green. Now I didn't, I made six from there. So we'll leave it there. But. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Doesn'T sound like the story. That's the thing of a story. [00:42:35] Speaker A: Six from five guys, that's another episode. We'll get into that another day. But I've spent so many. I've had to remind myself a lot is that hey, the fairway's 35, 40 yards wide. It doesn't have to be dead down the center. In fact, I'm more looking at the tree lines half the time and keeping in the tree lines. [00:42:52] Speaker B: But hit it fine and hit it again. [00:42:54] Speaker A: That's right. But what you're saying there about your. I mean I've had a lot of perfect warm up sessions in en Route to 94S. [00:43:03] Speaker C: You look good at the range. [00:43:05] Speaker A: I mean I've left the driving rates thinking 60. What today? I mean I know it's, I know it starts with a six. I just don't, you know, where's it going to go from there. And then you get to the golf course, you don't have it. But then there's been other days. Like you said, not the best bullpen session. You throw a one hit shutout. Part of it is just figuring out, okay, today was an example of that. I guess I knew real quick warming up. This is not my A game. This is like B minus. But knowing that, okay, what does that mean to me? It means I'm about a half a club off. I need If I'm hitting 8 iron, it's not 175 today on the 8 iron. It's 168, you know, and okay, don't go 245 carry. I don't have today. We don't do that. But just know those things and play for them. [00:43:47] Speaker B: Play for it? Yeah, to shoot whatever score is your best possible score for that day. And that's what people, people struggle with this because whatever your handicap is, let's say you're a scratch or a two, which I hover between a scratch and a two right now just because time. I'll go through stretches where I play three days a week for like a month and then I won't touch a club again for like three months just because, you know, it's just how it goes. But your handicap is not your average score. It is technically the top end of your scoring potential. Right, right. Your best. [00:44:17] Speaker A: It's Technically your top quartile or top 20% now with the chains. [00:44:20] Speaker B: So. So whatever your driving range, if like I love Brooks Koepka's quote, he said I don't care how I hit it on the range because that's not how I'm going to play. It's just a warm up. It's a warm up. It's doing the 20 body weight squats or whatever the case may the warrant. So I like that mentality a lot because I've had terrible range sessions before the round and then go out and shoot the best round of my life. So it's different. But the whole point to all of that is we've got to figure out ways where we understand what our scoring potential is for that day and to be okay with that and to play within our limits such that you enjoy the game and don't hate it and don't not want to play. You know, that's really what it is. Because unless you're playing for money or you've got amateur ranking or something that you're trying to build upon, most of us are just out there trying to stay somewhat competitive in our local club championship or whatever the case may be your weekend money games with your friends. But what is your best potential so that you don't then just blow it up? Yeah, because there's lots of ways like let's say you're not hitting it that great. I always tell my students, I don't want you to fly a ball onto a single green unless absolutely necessary. How would you just go out there and hit a 7 iron chip and run from 100 yards? How simple would that be for you? If there's no danger in front the green and you're hitting it like garbage. I could do that in my sleep. Do it. Bonk. And then they go up there and two putt par. And then they go do it again. Bonk. Two putt par. It's like there's so many ways to play this game. Safely, smartly, when you don't have your best and it's just understand that your potential is not your best score that day. That's not what you got. Because when another sports coach gets to say buddy, you don't got it today we're gonna sit you on the bench. You don't have that in golf. [00:45:54] Speaker A: No, that's right. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Right. So we also forget that this is an individual sport where you don't get the benefit of shifting subbing at I'll never forget around. [00:46:02] Speaker A: I was playing one time, wasn't Playing very good. And I think I lost like six balls in the front nine. And I was so aggravated, and I got to the back nine, I think I had, like two or three balls left. And I made this smarty, like, comment. Somebody was like, I'm not losing another golf ball this round. I don't care if I've got a layup on a par three. I'm not losing another golf ball this round. I shot 37. [00:46:21] Speaker B: There you go. [00:46:21] Speaker A: Just because that simple of a mindset, keeping where I can see it. [00:46:26] Speaker B: That's right. [00:46:27] Speaker A: Just the simple things can go a really, really long way. However, I will say this. One of the things that's really killing me getting on the real golf course right now is that I never go to the driving range. I'm usually working right up until about five minutes before I need to leave. Jump in the car, throw the car. [00:46:44] Speaker B: And park and just run the first. [00:46:46] Speaker A: Run into the pro shop and handle my car and say, I'm on the tee a minute ago. This is too late to get out there. Right. One round in particular, I hadn't played at all. I hadn't warmed up or had balls at all that day. And I was hitting it a little shorter. And I noticed at Sully's that it takes me about 25 to 50 balls to reach my max speed. Well, guess what happens? That's about nine to 18 holes of golf, full swing, right? So I'm not warming until I'm about finished. So you do need to go to the range. That's part of your process. But you're not going to the driving range. To find your swing is to identify your swing. Which swing did you bring today? And to loosen up. [00:47:22] Speaker B: And loosen up. That's the most important. [00:47:23] Speaker A: That's the main thing, is to approach your warm up as. Like you said, it's a warm up, it's a warmup. [00:47:28] Speaker B: It's just like warming up before a round of golf. It's just like shoot a round before the basketball game. That's what it is. It's not, what did Tiger say in that Golf Digest magazine? Let's try that. That's not what it is. And again, like, one of the things I try to impress upon anybody I work with or coach or my college students or whatever is treat golf as if you are an athlete in any other sport. You need to do the exercises. You need to have a game plan. You need to study film, right? Know the course, know the opponent before you go play it. But we don't do that. We just. I'M just gonna show up and play. And then, and then the thing is, you get mad when you don't prepare like an athlete and you don't perform like an athlete. Yeah, that's just lunacy. I don't know why we do what we. I don't know why golfers do that to themselves, especially. No offense, but the 60 plus year olds who don't move well anyways. Right. [00:48:15] Speaker A: What percentage of golfers do you think this is a Mike? This is a loaded question for Mike here. [00:48:20] Speaker C: Teeing it up. [00:48:21] Speaker A: This is a hanging softball right down the middle for you. What percentage of golfers do you guys think spend the same amount of energy on their physical preparation, whether it be for a round or for a season or for whatever, that they do their swing or their mental game or whatever? I mean, I'm pegging it below 20%. I don't know. [00:48:40] Speaker B: Unless you're a competitive college or professional golfer. Just our American culture in general, people don't take care of their bodies as well as they should. [00:48:48] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not guilty of it. Second follow up question to that is what percentage of the, of the pie, of the performance pie does it make up? Right. If only 20% of us are doing it, what is, I would argue Maybe close to 50% is how physically prepared am I to play? I was. The biggest commitment that I've made to my physical preparation this year is switching from light beer to ultralight. [00:49:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:49:11] Speaker A: That's the biggest commitment I've done to try to shave a little bit of weight off. And it's, and it apparently hasn't worked because I'm about the fattest I've ever been. And I can feel it when I step outside now. And I'm not looking forward to the next couple of months because I realize I gotta change that and it's not a lot of fun. But do I want to keep playing bad anytime it gets over 90, or do I want to fix the problem? [00:49:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:33] Speaker A: But. Okay, so if I've made that commitment now, okay, I need to, to do this. What's, what are the top three, top five, whatever you want to call it. Hydration is a simple one that we don't have to get in shape to hydrate. Right. That's something we can all do before we go play. Okay. But you've got flexibility, you've got mobility, you've got. [00:49:51] Speaker C: Give me the magic bullet. Give me the, the magic that's going to help me play. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Not the magic so much as what's the. Okay, if I say okay I'm going to find an hour to work out. I'm going to, I'm going to devote an hour a day to improving my body for the purpose of golf. Is it I need to lose weight? Because I need to lose weight. [00:50:11] Speaker C: Okay, well, first of all, knowing you like I know you, you do not need to start working out an hour a day. You are not in the shape I know you. [00:50:18] Speaker A: 15 minutes. Because you're gonna get hurt. [00:50:21] Speaker B: You'll get hurt. [00:50:22] Speaker C: First of all, don't go into the gym every day, you know, if you're not doing anything, you know, and, and that happens a lot. People aren't. They come and see me and I'm their last line of defense. They've already bought the clubs, they've gone to see the golf pro, you know, they've done everything and now they're coming to see me. [00:50:44] Speaker B: Same thing, Mike. Yeah. And so they take 20 years off my life. Exactly. [00:50:51] Speaker C: They've just taken the Mustang out of the barn. It's covered in, you know, dirt and grime. And so first of all, just coming in once a week, you know, it's like the slow, the slow build, you know, because by the time they see me, they're enthusiastic, they're gung ho, they want to do something. And I was like, okay. And I hate to be that guy because then they're so jacked up and they're so excited and you don't want to be like the cold bucket of water. But I was like, hey, let's just make sure you can. Let's just see how you do it. [00:51:26] Speaker A: For you all kind of thing. Yeah. [00:51:27] Speaker C: 30 minutes. Why don't you come back in and walk on the treadmill and, you know, let's do that for a couple weeks. [00:51:33] Speaker B: And I'm not paying you to talk to me while I walk in the trepe, but. Yeah, right you are, because you're paying me to tell you what you need to do. That's right. [00:51:41] Speaker A: I didn't realize all those conversations we were having, by the way, were you trying to figure out what was going on in my head. I thought we were just chit chatting. I didn't know you were trying to figure out. [00:51:48] Speaker B: No, coaches always asking questions to figure out. But to that point, I'll give you an anecdote from my life. So again, we always compare ourselves to our best versions of ourselves in whatever it is. So you take a big, your big break off of golf where you were shooting low 70s, high 60s, and then you take a six month break, as you said. And then you try to get back into it and it's not going well. That's because you are not comparing yourself to what you are capable of at this point in time. You're comparing yourself to six months ago, peak. [00:52:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:52:15] Speaker B: Same thing happened with me in the powerlifting, you know, early 30s, late 20s, early 30s. I'm strong, I'm fit, I'm dedicated. Then I had babies. So a year of not training that way goes by. What does my dumb ass do? Let's go right back into it. And this happened for five or six straight years. I'd get hurt. You go to full deadlift and something's not prepared, it's not built up, and you get hurt. And then the whole thing stops. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:39] Speaker B: And then you start again, and then it stops, and then it starts again because you're not being patient. You're not building the foundation properly. So I don't care where you're at in life or what you're doing, whether it's golf or fitness, whatever, there is always not where I was and where I want to be. There's where I am now. How do I get to where I want to be? Right. You see what I'm saying? Like, you can't just go. [00:52:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think there's something to be said for embracing what? Taking what? Taking what life gives you to some extent. Maybe in that example, for me, probably January, February, when I was first getting back into it a little bit, I would. If I went too hard, I would feel a pain from my lower abdomen, and it would. I didn't know what it was. Took me a couple months to even look into it. But I knew that I didn't want it to get any worse. So I would very intentionally not go as hard as I could for a while. But what I got out of that was I started working a lot on tempo and a lot on slowing my swing down and a lot on not swinging. Max, max, max. And what was funny is I found that if I swung, if I would swing the club more efficiently, I really didn't lose but maybe one or two miles an hour from that max anyway. And, okay, so take a negative and turn it into a positive. But there's a lot of opportunities to do that with your physical training and say, okay, for me in particular, I don't think me trying to get stronger has got to be. If I were going to go an hour to the gym or even 30 minutes, do I want to spend all of that time lifting weights and trying to get stronger? To me, the low Hanging fruit seems to be, okay, lose some weight so you can have better endurance and just feel better and have more energy on the golf course. And also, so flexibility and mobility are the two things that I think for my particular swing are the big opportunities, I guess. But for right now, I can't forget stretching. I can't get around my belly to do a stretch. Right. My muscles are more flexible than I can reach because the belly's in the way. Right. But each. I only. I was teasing about me trying to get free advice out of it. I'm one example of it. Everybody out there has their own body, their own limitations, their own things. So how do you help your clients identify where they need to. Okay, this is where your low hanging fruit is. 60% of your time needs to be spent in this area to get the most gains, and then we can build on that. [00:54:53] Speaker C: I mean, a great question. So I learned. So, I mean, I think I'm in my 20th year now. So it's. You can go in with a game plan or a practice plan with your clients. You know, perfect example. I got a guy comes in, he played a member guest over the weekend. Okay. With his brother out in Connecticut. Well, they played Wednesday, Thursday, two on Friday. I think Saturday, came back Sunday. Sitting on the tarmac for two hours because of weather, falls asleep. He comes in, he can't turn his neck. So I can have a great plan for him for the day. [00:55:35] Speaker A: Mike. [00:55:35] Speaker C: Hey, how you doing? But he still came in. He didn't cancel. [00:55:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:42] Speaker C: Okay, so what are we gonna do for the next 60 minutes? It's not gonna make him worse because he's gonna play this week. [00:55:50] Speaker A: So how can I get him ready to play? [00:55:53] Speaker C: This is a great session, Mike. [00:55:55] Speaker A: So, you know, you don't want to get him hurt, but he might get himself hurt. [00:55:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I can have the best workout in the world or the best game plan for somebody, but they come in and they've got something going on. So I've just had to learn to adapt. And he's coming off playing a lot of golf. And so, like, you're saying, what. What's the best thing to do when I go in? Well, for Craig, it was to get him loose, do some soft tissue work, get him. Do some mobility, do some things that don't require him, you know, moving his neck, straining his shoulders. And, you know, I love it when you get to the end of the hour. Like, man, I feel so much better. I'm so happy that I came in and, you know, you didn't fix him he's still got some discomfort, but he's hopefully on the road to recovery where, you know it's a win when they don't have to miss a round of golf. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:56:53] Speaker B: From my perspective, I would say if I had to pick, because that sounds like what you're wanting to pick is strength, mobility, flexibility. It sounds like you want an answer, like, opinion on that. Yeah, that's the best. So what I'll say is if you can't move, you can't play golf. [00:57:09] Speaker A: Right. [00:57:09] Speaker B: So flexibility, mobility. So I always tell people, if you can't do anything else, if you can't hit a ball, you need to do some form of dynamic motion just to get the blood flowing. Because I used to use the analogy of ticky tack or silly Putty or whatever. If you take it out of the freezer and try to bend and twist, it ain't gonna go well. You heat it up in your hands or the M for a few seconds. Now we can do something with it. And granted, like injury prevention, I love it. It's a great concept. But people get hurt sometimes. Weird stuff just happens. You step wrong, you make a weird swing. High level Olympians get hurt, and it's their job to train to not get hurt. So we can only do so much, and then life's just gonna. Life, as I say, but if you can't move, you can't swing. And so you know when you run out of the golf, out of the golf cart or the car, and you got that one minute late tee time, those first few swings, like, though it takes, I find whenever I have those rounds of golf where I don't have time to actually warm up on the range, it is three or four holes before I actually feel like I can even move enough to swing. So what do we need to do in the meantime to play? Well, you might need to hit that little bump and run off the tee that just scoots. You might need to play that little chip into the green and try to get pars versus birdies just until you can actually move. None of these tour players, absolutely none of these college golfers, shows up any less than an hour and a half to two hours before their tee time. [00:58:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:58:27] Speaker B: So they can go to the tent and they can work with their trainer and they can just get ready to move. [00:58:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's a huge part of it is just being. Because I used to get to the golf course an hour and a half early also so that I could have a good full practice session. Right. And that's not the M.O. at all. So it's not the norm. What I'm. [00:58:47] Speaker B: This was during the six months we've already discovered. [00:58:49] Speaker A: You're not the noise. [00:58:50] Speaker B: Six months stretch of regression. That's right. [00:58:52] Speaker A: Yeah. But. But for me, when I'm. When I'm going to go try to play a really serious round of golf, I will make sure I take a hot shower and get the muscles soft enough so that I can go do some foam rolling and some soft tissue work and then I'll try to do some stretching and then I'll eventually build up to the range where you can really try to. There's a process to even to getting yourself ready. Right. I mean, I think it's. If I just go try to stretch as much as I possibly can without hydrating first, I'm not going to get as much out of the stretch as I would. Right. So even that has sort of a building block element to it and that you're, you know, you don't. There's a reason that you warm up before you go try to lift £400. [00:59:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:59:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:59:33] Speaker B: Yes. It's so that you have the potential to be able to do that which. With minimal risk of injury. [00:59:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:59:39] Speaker B: It's just how it works. So I was gonna say one thing, going back to the whole preparation thing that most, not most people, but a lot of people do overlook. Having a bowel movement before you play golf is so important. I'm not even kidding, because I can't. So I have celiac, right. So like gut health for me is very important. But you go to some of these clubhouses and tournaments, they might have two bathroom stalls for the guys to. To poop in. Is a line of 40, 60 year olds outside who've just drunk their morning coffee. Good luck getting in there to go do your business. So, like that throws you off, right? So it's funny, I had one of my alumni, one of my college kids play with me in a tournament these last two years of playing a member of guests. And I told him, I said, only piece of advice to give you is let's have fun and poop before you get here. He's like, what? I was like, dude, I promised you if you don't poop before you get here, you're sol for lack of a better acronym. He was like, I'll be all right. And so sure enough, he's like, I can't go warm up. I can't go hit balls. There's a lineup, you know, I'm like, I know. I told you poop before you get here, so you don't have to do that and you can go do your warm up stuff. Right? But there's so many little things that we neglect or don't even consider that all throw your routine off and they all, they all throw everything out of whack. And golf is such a in flow game that every little bit we can do to stay in flow and not get out of it is important. But back to the mobility thing again. Like, there's a reason why Miguel angel is still doing what he's doing and Gary Player did what he did for so long is because he's like, Gabe, look at me, look at this. I can still touch my toes. And I do this every, you know, and Miguel with his little knee thing and all that. If you're mobile, even as we get older and we're not as strong, if you can still move, you can play golf. Yeah, I've had to play golf where my neck, I can't turn before. You can't play. It's impossible. Like at least not to your potential. Right. You can't do it. So if I had to pick at least before a round of golf, I would focus on flexibility and mobility. And you can accomplish a lot with just some body weight, squats with just some air. I call my students airplanes, where you just take your arms out like an airplane, just back and forth just to move. Just some, you know, superspeed has good warm up exercises. TPI has some good stuff as well, but it's nothing like overtly complicated. It's just move. [01:01:51] Speaker A: We talked about the seasonality of it to an extent that the players, even when they're not in strength building mode or what, they're still working out. I know there's the adage, I don't know if I if there's any truth to it or not, that when you're working out, you're building muscle, but then that's kind of causing your golf. It kind of messes up your golf swing because you've not developed that muscle memory with the new muscle and all this kind of stuff. And there's something about not. I know, I've heard it in basketball too. Like they tell basketball players not to lift weights. [01:02:18] Speaker B: Periodization. What you're talking about periodization where. And you can jump in on this too, obviously, but like basically where during season is not where we're breaking down our muscles to build them stronger because you need to not be sore in order to move, right? So off season is where you'll See, a lot of the strength gains happen then during season, it's more maintenance phase. Right. And they'll cycle and they'll go like this. Even with the strength building phase, you can't just floor to the, you know, gas pedal to floor. You've got to cycle it as well. But that's probably what they're talking about here is the. [01:02:54] Speaker A: But if you're inside, I mean it's June right now. Right. So this is kind of peak playing season for most golfers. So now is probably not the time to start a new workout plan to try to build muscle and gain strength if you're playing a whole lot. [01:03:05] Speaker B: Not if you're playing competitive. Yeah, no, not at all. I would say it's the time to, if you are going to do any form of strength training, like you might be looking to gain five pounds per lift over the season. Right. Like we're just, we're just moving, moving with weight and maintaining what we've got. You don't want to be debilitatingly sore after these workouts, otherwise you can't play. [01:03:26] Speaker A: Right, right. [01:03:27] Speaker B: And that's, that's kind of the body's got a good built in feeler system. [01:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:30] Speaker B: It literally your microfibers of your muscle tear when you are strength training. [01:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:36] Speaker B: And that's what causes the soreness. So if we are going too hard, too heavy, too fast, you won't be able to walk. [01:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, is there some element of that that goes on even just from, just from, from pure speed training? Like if I go into the, into the simulator and just try to spend a day hitting 100 balls as really focusing on speed, swinging as fast as I can, hard as I can, I'm going to be sore the next day. Is there an element of that that's going on even when you're doing speed training where those microfibers are being broken down? [01:04:04] Speaker B: And to an extent, yes. The main thing I see with the plyometric and speed training is the central nervous system also takes a hit because you are your brain. Everything is telling your muscle fibers, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. Fast, fast, fast. That's another thing people don't think about, especially when you do heavy weightlifting, just the whole processes of the body itself takes a hit. It is so taxing to go in your peak because the speed training is working at peak. It is not working at 60% max efficient, max capacity. It is 99, 100%. That's the whole point is overloading the central nervous system to be able to move faster. So that also has a seasonality and a periodization to it as well. 100%. [01:04:43] Speaker A: And then in the golf swing itself, there are you see these guys that we will look at these swings and we'll think, man, we can't get in that position. We're not flexible enough to get in that position. We're not mobile enough to get in that position. There is an element of that where, especially as we get older, we can't do it. A lot of times it's because we're doing it wrong. We're not making the correct mechanical movements. So I guess for your average, I mean, I'm by no means an above average athlete, but compared to a 60 year old, I've probably still got a little bit more tire. Turn on the tires. So where's that balance? I guess between I'm not in good enough shape to perform that perfect golf swing versus no, I'm hijacking my right arm and putting it in a really weird position. That's why I can't get it where I need it to be at the top. [01:05:24] Speaker B: TPI does some great stuff. [01:05:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that's. Yeah. So before I start working with somebody, I take them through the TPI screen. It's about 17 movements and. And for the golfer, it's backswing, follow through, but it's right side, left side. And it's everything from neck mobility down to ankle mobility. And it's funny because I don't coach guys up on their swing. Right. I'm in the gym, but I can. Having not even seen them swing, I can start identifying their swing faults and I've never even seen them swing, whether it's, you know, I've already gotten a heads up from the head pro, the golf pro. Hey, I can't get him to get to the top of his backswing. Hey, tell me about your right shoulder. Why? Like I'm. You're not able to externally rotate as much. [01:06:15] Speaker B: I was about to say that one. That's so glad I said that. [01:06:18] Speaker C: Tell me. Oh, he's like, well, you know, I was skiing 20 years ago and I separated my shoulder and. But you know, whatever it is, you just. And some of them, they don't even know why and it just happened. And so it's identifying it and we may never get it as good as the follow through side. But like you guys say, you know, you're trying to get a couple more degrees in the hip, the torso, the shoulder. And if I can help them get a few more degrees without them getting hurt. Because once we start opening up that range, there's a reason why their body does not want them to. To externally rotate. And so it's one thing to open them up, but then it's also how can we get them stronger in those new ranges of motion so they don't get hurt. Right. Because they like, I feel amazing. Like this is the best I felt. And they go out and, you know, they're swing, their body is doing something it's not used to doing and then, you know, something breaks down. [01:07:17] Speaker A: Golf isn't a. You go to YouTube and you find the one swing fix that's going to take you. Even if you did, like I said, you had the perfect swing. But if you don't have all these other elements in place, it's still not gonna help you play the way you wanna play. But what I'm hoping we can do here is talk enough about the mental side, the strategy side, the physical preparation, the physical mechanics, just how to swing a golf club. Correct. There are some fundamentals that you need to have there and then at least point you in the right direction to. Okay, do you need a sports psychologist for this? What do you actually need to do? Yeah. Do you need a nutritionist to help you not just lose weight? Yeah, exactly. Do you need a mic? [01:07:54] Speaker B: And everybody needs a mic. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Everybody needs a mic. Yeah, that's a given. So, yeah, I think that's hopefully what we'll be able to do here is to talk to touch on all these elements and help people kind of build their own strategy. So thank you guys. Real pleasure. Yeah, man, we'll do it again. [01:08:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. Hopefully you got some good content out of this. You can at least break it up into some stuff. [01:08:16] Speaker A: This will not be on the show, by the way. It might be the most relatable thing on this show. You never know. [01:08:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I live with two other guys that are both 34 and it's been years on divorce now, guys, it's time. About to turn 50. [01:08:34] Speaker B: I need to get my own place. [01:08:35] Speaker C: Dad needs to sprout some wings and fly. [01:08:38] Speaker A: There's something about me that gravitates apparently. I don't know how it is that I attract. All of my friends are single. Like none of us can keep a woman. [01:08:45] Speaker B: Really. [01:08:45] Speaker A: Damn. But we all seem to be, I don't know, like minded people or whatever. But man, it's like I've got more single guy friends than I've got married friends at this point. But we were joking that we really, at this point, none of us are anywhere close to dating or getting married. We really just need to get a compound somewhere and just like, you know, let's just get. We pull our resources together. We need a nice place, have something like this. [01:09:07] Speaker B: And then a little racetrack in the backyard. [01:09:09] Speaker A: That's what we've talked about. That seriously. Go kart track. And the kids enjoy. That we can do. We all play golf. So we can do a golf, but we can do a putting grade in the backyard. So guys, stuff we do. So golfers. It's really easy to forget. Oh, man. I was just teeing you up and you leave. You sound great. [01:09:28] Speaker B: You sound great. Sound fantastic. [01:09:30] Speaker A: This. I was coming your way with this question. Hit me, hit me.